|gambol - 2012-04-21 |
I think I don't understand.
3:15 - 3:20
All you need to know.
no that didn't help
Dude explains it correctly. Yes, he needs more product.
|Jet Bin Fever - 2012-04-21 |
Okay, I probably -would- watch this show. But fix that tag Reefer.
fat finger syndrome.
|Kid Fenris - 2012-04-21 |
All the idealized heroic sacrifice of World War II Japan, without any bothersome racist imperialism or horrific war crimes!
So are the villains Space Germans or Space Americans this time around?
Nahh, in the original, the imperialists get destroyed for having picked a fight they didn't need to. There's no way Japanese audiences could have not taken the hint.
The original also goes out of its way to show that the bad guys are physically no different from humans, i.e. not monsters or inferiors.
Funny thing about both Japan and Germany: they've thought about the bad things they did and have by and large learned from the experience. It's very much unlike the Confederate states who still dream of rising up and picking the same stupid fight they lost once already.
yeah because japan really owned up to Nanking and this anime proves it
NewHeavenSalesman: you were so bent on being sarcastic you tunneled all the way through to stupid. The deal with sarcasm is, you make a false point based on what the other person said and force them to figure out how what they said must have been wrong. All I said was that Japan and Germany have learned not to be imperialist fuckwads, and I'm pretty sure history books will back me up on that.
Actually, I think most history books aside from high school textbooks and neoconservative screeds would reject your facile personification of states' intentions, but whatever.
The point is that Japan stopped being aggressive imperialists not because of some introspective crisis. After WWII, they accepted the most powerful nation in the world throwing money at them and choosing not to exact any sort of significant punishment on their government in exchange for having their functionally obliterated army officially removed.
The fact that it took 50 years for Japan to issue even an oral official apology for Nanking, and that a significant part of the population, including political leaders and cultural figures, still denies anything happens, pretty well demonstrates that Japan as a unified front has not really learned anything. Also, nationalist and ultra-right wing ideals, especially as to the reinstitution of a national army, are on the rise.
Japan probably won't field an army in the near future, but it won't be because the government and military leaders are misty-eyed over the atrocities their country committed. Instead, it's because they're no longer the dominant regional military force they once were. Without an explicit American go-ahead to do so, forming an army would be the most suicidal thing Japan could do right now.
tl;dr: bort is dumb
Impressive how you can type so much yet say so little. That's the mark of a bullshitter, and not even a good one.
Still waiting for evidence that Japan and/or Germany have serious imperialist ambitions.
I'm sorry I study history, dude. But anyway, let's trace your argument's evolution:
You initially argued that Japan was somehow contrite for its crimes unlike the Confederate states (wrong), then broadened it to claiming what you really meant was that their loss in WWII was the sole reason they stopped being imperialist (also wrong), and now you're broadening it again to claim that what you REALLY meant was just saying that Japan isn't seriously planning to invade anyone these days.
And yes, you're finally correct on this, though as I stated above, it's not because of any "thinking about the bad things they've done", but due to the fact that they are no longer the dominant military power in the region, and instead have to rely on their alliance with the US to protect themselves. Any sign by Japan that they were seriously planning to re-militarize would be met with a very hostile reaction from China, the Koreas, and Russia.
Bottom line, whether a defeated nation or faction changes its nature doesn't depend on some fictional internal character like whether they make your favorite cartoons or if they have stupid accents, but on a wide range of external factors that you clearly are never going to understand because they don't involve spaceships.
It's embarrassing to ask for a restatement after haranguing Bort about this, but I misspoke in my last post ), and I apologize for having apparently pretty gross opinions.
I solely based my argument against Japan re-arming based off the fact that it would be suicidal to do so with a strong China watching its every move. And while that's logically true, I -should- have mentioned Japan isn't imperialist because it occupies a strong position in a global economy. For the current moment, there is no reason a country like Japan would risk all its prosperity for an outdated economic system that no one uses anymore. I think that every country employs the same risk/reward scenario in their head for determining whether they want to be a peaceful member of this society, so I could still be a deterministic idiot in your eyes. That's fine with me.
Last words: my initial beef was Bort was that a defeated country doesn't become peaceful because that's their mystical national temperament or because it realized the error of their warlike ways. Instead, it's whether the state of that country is so shitty after the defeat that devastation of war is outweighed by a need to return to the way things were and/or to assuage their humiliation at the nation's defeat and apparent loss.
Last olive-branchy words: I don't think a country suddenly turns hippie-smoochy after a defeat either. Pragmatism is the biggest driving force in post-war relations, where a shortage of pragmatism had once led to disastrous conflicts (see Japan and Germany prior to WWII, who both grossly overestimated their chances of carving out an empire). I don't believe there are that many Japanese today who are saying "you know, we had the right idea in 1937", and even if there are apologists, nobody except the odd fringe group wants to actually try a sequel of WWII.
Can we all just agree it's Kid Fenris' fault for making statements about "Star Blazers" despite not knowing shit about it?
Xenocide: Yamato's success is largely due to it retelling World War II with the Japanese as (mostly) good guys. It allowed audiences to embrace a romanticized WWII naval drama without the lingering reminders of actual history.
So it'll be Space Germans for this series, then. The Space Americans were in the 2009 Yamato film where the belligerent alien empire is called the S.U.S.
By the way, anyone interested in World War II and the works of Yamato co-creator Leiji Matsumoto should hunt down the Cockpit. One character tells us that the people who first use nuclear weapons "will be remembered as the worst mass murderers in history."
|Bort - 2012-04-21 |
The original show is available for free on Hulu; the odd crappy episode aside, the show holds up. Mostly it just needs better voice actors and mildly fine-tuned dialogue; certainly the English version needs that, I'm guessing the Japanese could benefit too.
Eh, it hasn't aged well. It's an interesting show from a historical standpoint (both in allegories and pop-culture impact), but it's also pretty boring and cliched today.
For the record, the best Matsumoto-related anime is Interstella 5555.
|Juice Eggs McKenna - 2012-04-21 |
What they are showing here is so similar to the original as to be totally redundant... still looks very nice though.
Literally can't possibly be as bad as the live action version.
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