Raptor Rapture would make a kickass video game name.

It's OK, it's OK. Animals don't have souls, don't feel pain, and were put here for our exploitation and entertainment.

It also has some closeted kid who is attending ORU. I wonder if they offer pray away the gay as part of the curriculum or something.

"Animals don't have souls, don't feel pain, and were put here for our exploitation and entertainment."

Tell that to St. Francis, foo!

http://www.americancatholic.org/features/francis/stories.asp

Francis was a papist idolater and everyone knows that crustafarian furfag is burning in hell.

Blasphemy!!! St. Francis broke the back of the Vatican's greed and won the hearts of the poor! The Franciscans do not answer to the Pope, they are separate from its control!

Silly Baleen, catholics only count to the religious right when they want to prevent abortions.

If the Franciscans really were such pious men of Christ, baleen, then how is it that God's Supreme Messenger on Earth, his majesty King Henry VIII, saw fit to include them in the glorious Dissolution?

Sola fide, you works-corrupted heretic! RECANT AND REPENT, before it is too late!

(You can't buy your way into heaven by being poor.)

How can you blame Francis of Assisi for the evil deeds of kings centuries after his death? The Franciscans introduced what could be considered the first "national healthcare" programs of old Europe. They founded some of the first leper colonies, as well as the first zero-interest pawning services for those indebted by the new class of merchants and bourgeoisie that were taking over. All the monastic traditions have their time in the sun, become sullied by corruption from within, enter league with the papacy and kings (they were often executed en masse for doing otherwise) then return to their original message, mostly.

And they liked animals. It goes without saying, if all conservative Christians would pay more attention to what he actually said, the world would likely be a better place.
I was being kind of serious this time. Even though I don't believe in God, I find the guy to be pretty remarkable given the greed, poverty and barbarism of his time.

Sorry that I ruined our role playing game. I couldn't stop myself.

Actually, I'd say the Franciscan healthcare system was, if anything, ethically superior to Europe's modern "national healthcare programs", insofar as they were based on charity (that is, the voluntary donation of funds by well-wishers and socially conscious individuals), rather than being funded through state-sponsored extortion (that is, the coercive exploitation - "exploitation" in it's most technical sense - of all sectors of the economy by those who claim a monopoly on force). And I totally agree with you, it was mad cool of him to be so down with animals. Francis was an OK dude, anti-Semitic opposition to usury notwithstanding.

But he wasn't OK so far as conservative Christians are concerned, or should be concerned for that matter. You'd never convince an intellectually honest Protestant fundamentalist (I know, I KNOW, it sounds like a contradiction in terms, but it IS possible to be intellectually honest about beliefs that are total horseshit) that Francis was anything more than a misguided, and probably hellbound, sinner. For starters, all the arguments you can raise about his good works, while valid, are irrelevant. For a Protestant, a person's good deeds mean nothing; salvation can only come through Jesus himself, and if a person isn't putting their faith in Jesus properly (i.e. isn't a Protestant) then they're shit out of luck. Another thing to consider is, why the hell would a conservative Christian WANT to pay attention to a man who thought animals were just as important as human beings? By Celestia, most progressive liberals I know wouldn't even go that far. Rightly or wrongly, Francis would be written off as some hemp-smoking eco-terrorist if he were alive today.

And though I was obviously joking in those last few comments, I DO stand by my assessment of Francis as a crustafarian.

There were few options for the poor in those days. You were covered in crust at all times.

Agree that conservative Christians would write off Francis as an eco-terrorist or whacko. Christianity itself is a process of cherrypicking the things that make your belief system more palatable.

This little thread inspired me to do some googling on Franciscan social economics, and I came upon this:

http://www.franciscansinternational.org/fileadmin/docs/Extreme _Poverty/Povertybook_web.pdf

I was very surprised to see Franciscans talking about neuro-economics.

Well, that was entertaining. Didn't know what I was kicking off there.

fags