Still waiting for even ONE refutation of the "whale facts" portion of the seaworld tour.

But King of Kong was awesome.

"I haven't seen the film but this video fits my ' per-concieved narrative' now lets bash it"

Can you read? I'm not bashing the film, which is why I made it clear that I haven't seen it.

I'm bashing the shitty documentary film making tactics he's talking about.

I like how the idea that a sterile environment with a good diet and some toys = best possible life.

It enrages me to no end just how quickly people like this redirect the discussion from 'Should we be keeping killer whales in captivity? What are the genuine benefits, and do those benefits outweigh the damage captivity has on them?' to 'Hey, are we REALLY mistreating killer whales, I mean seriously we're giving them a six-course meal every day, amirite, guys?'.

I don't think whales are as important as people but the immediate parallel that springs to mind is Guantanamo Bay, where you had morons changing the discussion from 'Should we REALLY be keeping people imprisoned without due process' to 'Are we REALLY mistreating the people we keep imprisoned without due process'.

I don't fucking _care_ how you're treating them; I care that you're putting them in cages _in the first place_. Seriously, how fucking hard is that for people to understand? Apparently, the answer is 'very'.

But hey, whatever, former SeaWorld Trainer Dude. Don't let little things like facts, reason, or morality slow you down on your one man race to outstupid yourselves.

And, yeah -- seriously, how can you be so fucking stupid to not see the difference between a playpen that's essentially an olympic swimming pool and a playpen that is THE ENTIRE FUCKING OCEAN?

It pains me to realize that a video on the internet wherein an idiot rambles about captive whales has managed to 'get my goat' so thoroughly, but Jesus Christ fuck these morons and fuck the stupid, lazy, irrational thought process by which they come to their moronic conclusions.

You still need to see it, because it's awesome. This guy is full of shit in his critique and this is not a hacked together doc.

You might be (and probably are) right about 1 and 2, but 3 is complete bullshit. There is no science (whale or otherwise) that could possibly tell us the emotional state of an animal.

That is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard around here.

As to the video, which is obviously a Sea World promo, it can be summarized as an asshole who claims to love animals thinks it's OK to use them for human entertainment. Screw this guy.

You've never actually read a scientific journal, have you?

You should give 'em a whirl. You might even learn something!

Hey, fuck you both. More sciency than thou motherfuckers. That was from the documentary and I thought it was interesting he didn't mention it. I didn't do the fucking study.

Stupid fucks.

I wasn't disagreeing with you memedumpster. I agree with everything you said.

But please, refer me to a scientific journal which states that an animal's reactions to stimuli cannot be observed and assessed.

Emotional states of animals are barely readable. I don't like the idea of seaworld but Anaxagoras is right.

I find the trainer's testimony pretty vacuous.

i find it fascinating that more than one person was dumb enough to say, in a public forum, that an animal's behavior is impossible to monitor or assess.

the inner thoughts? obfuscated, nobody is obviously empathic with animals, but if youre trying to tell me that people who actually interact with them all the time cannot pick up on body language and behavior, you're just not that bright.

Not impossible, just very difficult and subject to a lot of bias(even, perhaps especially, those who interact with them regularly).

Look no further than those dolphins at Seaworld "laughing" and wrigling glee in the show? They sure seem happy right?

Lots of info on teh wikipedia page, but this is an illustrative para:

"Evidence for emotions in animals has been primarily anecdotal, from individuals who interact with pets or captive animals on a regular basis. However, critics of animals having emotions often suggest that anthropomorphism is a motivating factor in the interpretation of the observed behaviours. Much of the debate is caused by the difficulty in defining emotions and the cognitive requirements thought necessary for animals to experience emotions in a similar way to humans.[12] The problem is made more problematic by the difficulties in testing for emotions in animals. What is known about human emotion is almost all related or in relation to human communication."

I'm sorry, guys, I didn't know you were arguing with each other.

Can't believe "impending shitstorm" doesn't just link to my history.

I suck.