thanks, i thought i was going to have to wait for the trial.
So has it been confirmed that this is him yet? I don't see how the fuck you could tell who it is or what the fuck is even happening from this video.
This all reeks of a really shitty setup to take heat off the PD. "See? This kid we murdered? He was actually a bad guy! A criminal! See? It's not like we killed someone innocent! They did something bad that one time! You can stop caring now!"
It's definitely him. Same build and height, and he's wearing the exact same shirt, striped socks and sandals that the body had.
Of course, this changes absolutely nothing about what's going on in Ferguson. No one had been dispatched to apprehend this guy and no one even knew who we was yet when Brown was murdered. The cop who killed him had no idea he was connected to the theft, he just decided to harass a couple of black people for "walking in the street."
Also, don't forget that while the PD was apparently desperately searching for ways to assassinate Brown's character, they still have yet to release a full autopsy report (which is borderline obstruction of justice at this point), nor have they released the cops dashcam video or lapel audio. They also haven't release any details whatsoever about the shooting itself.
It's entirely possible that this kid was a royal piece of shit, but it doesn't change anything at all about what's going down there.
Ah I had no idea there were pictures of what he had on when he died. Got it.
But that was my very point. Even if this kid robbed five convenience stores in the past, it's got no bearing on the morality of a cop shooting him to death while he's unarmed holding his hands in the air, and it's incredibly shitty of the PD to try to make it seem like this incident was less of a travesty than it was by publicizing this.
Also, they're claiming no recording devices exists in the entire department which is why there's no dashcam. Heh.
My questions are, if he stole a box of cigars, where are they?
What did they do with the cigars?
Furthermore, why didn't the police mention the alleged robbery? A suspected robbery would certainly have been better press for them. They changed the story from jaywalking\stopping traffic to robbing a South Asian man of his cigars.
'When The Media Treats White Suspects And Killers Better Than Black Victims'
Reminds me of...
A picture on Michelle Malkin's newsfeed had her caption "Here's a picture of looters in Ferguson stealing a bandsaw..."
One of the most popular comments read: "What are they stealing that for? They'll never use it."
Beneath that were variations of "white people make things, black people break things."
Jesus baleen. You actually consider Malkin part of the media?
I follow certain assholes on Facebook because I find it interesting\revolting how they spin things, and what passes for normal discussion among their fanbase.
She is, in fact, a part of the media, just the conservative media.
|John Holmes Motherfucker |
My initial assumption (clearly, everybody's got one) is that this is manslaughter, not murder, since murder implies premeditation. I think it was a stupid cop fucking up, but there's clearly a lot more going on here besides this one awful incident, a whole history. Not even going to read the fucking comments. The last time, it really was about a boy who had just been walking down the street with a box of skittles, and the ugliest, most hateful motherfuckers on the internet were out in full force to smear the dead boy. How much worse is this going to be? A lot worse.
murder doesn't require premeditation, that's a requirement of 1st degree murder.
22 hours ago
+james dean amen.... think about it. that store is FULL of some arab family working their asses off and making money while the BLACK in that neighborhood who make up 70% of the town now that all the whites have left it can't find enough people to run a store cuz they are too busy being lazy scumbags slogging through clown college so they can get a degree in criminal justice to support their crime habit! this guy gets killed and instead of looking around and saying... "WHO in this community taught these kids that stealing 50 bucks worth of merchandise and shoving a grown adult around in front of his family and walking in the middle of the street in traffic was OK?" answer that question first.. then go out and protest if you must.
13 hours ago (edited)
+M Stephens YOU JOKING RIGHT COME ON THATS FUCKED UP BLACKS ARE THE MOST CRY BABYS EVER YOU DONT HEAR THE MEDIA BLOWING THE SHIT UP WHEN THEY KILL WHITES / MEXICANS / ASIANS / OTHER RACE WHEN BLACKS KILL THEM NO ONLY HAPPENS WHEN A DIFFERNT RACE KILLS A BLACK BITCH RIGHT NOW THATS RACIST AND IM SICK OF IT BLACKS CRYING LIKE LITTLE BITCHES ABOUT IT PLAY THE RACE CARD EVERY TIME ONE OF THEM DIES GOTTA BLAME THE WHITES IM SICK OF IT THEY NEED TO GROW THE FUCK UP QUIT ACTING LIKE ANIMALS AND START ACTING LIKE HUMANS NO WOUNDER OTHER RACES HATES THEM AND THEIR OWN PEOPLE HATES THEM TO WHY BECAUSE THEY MAKING BLACKS LOOKS LIKE FUCKING BABYS AND OTHER RACES AND OTHER BLACKS ARE SICK OF IT
6 hours ago
+King Shaytan I go to church.... so what is your point?. you call me weak for the fact I seek the hand of god?.... think what you want about god followers but I myself will defend me & my family. I stay strap... wish some punk bitch would steal from me.
1 day ago (edited)
Another supposed "sweet peaceful king among men" is shown to be a piece of shit thug that gets instant justice. I LOVE IT! If the store clerk had been the one that shot that-- gang sign flashing retard-- this would have just been another video we would have been watching and saying "Nice, glad to see that clerk blow that bully thug fuck away".
...and it just keeps going.
I'm not familiar with Missouri law, but under general constitutional law it's some form of murder unless the cop has reason to believe that someone's life is at risk if they don't use deadly force. This is a general rule: you don't have justification to kill someone under most state laws unless you believe that it's necessary to prevent a risk of death or great bodily harm to someone, or you're preventing the traditional "tumultuous entry into your house during the nighttime," in your average state with the castle doctrine. So the end of the story is if that Brown doesn't have a gun and he's running, you can't shoot him to death on the grounds that he's a suspect in a crime.
I laughed when they released this. Be on the look out! Suspect is unarmed and not dangerous.
The cops are still working on their angle. The theory that Brown attacked the cop in the car or went for his gun can at best get them to "voluntary manslaughter," ("second-degree murder" in some jurisdictions), which is basically a murder where you're under severe provocation. Traditionally it's used where a person committed a murder, but it's the sort of murder society's okay with because it involves a privileged class. The classic example is a guy who comes home and sees his wife fucking another dude and instantly blows one or both of them away--yeah, it's a murder, but come on, that bitch had it coming! A jury could easily conclude that messing with a cop is enough to mildly justify murder. But that still maxes out at 20 years in Illinois, and is a pretty heft charge for a cop to eat.
My guess is that they're going to come up with some sort of story about untranscribed radio chatter suggesting that maybe some unidentified person reported that the robbery suspect (i.e., Brown) had a gun. I've seen untranscribed radio chatter without a source used before to create a fictitious emergency to justify warrantless entry to a house, for example. It's great because it's impossible to conclusively disprove--if the cop says he doesn't remember the source, what are you going to do, call everyone with access to the police band as a witness?
|Old People |
Seems like a nice guy. I'm sure he didn't attack the cop or anything, and I'm sure the witnesses to the shooting aren't biased.
Are you actual old people? Is this a bit?
I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Brown was a shitbag. It's possible that he attacked the cop. It's even possible that the cop was totally justified in shooting Mr Brown dead, and I'm willing to entertain the opinions of anyone who says as much - after all, one of the cornerstones of our legal system is the idea that a man is innocent until proven guilty, and, even though Mr Brown was denied this fundamental right, that does not make it just to deny it to the police officer. Now, as always, we should take care not to let mob rule and trial-by-media carry the day.
However, *even if* the police officer was both legally and ethically justified in doing what he did, I put it to you that none of it really matters. Not in the grander scheme of things. The riots in Ferguson, and the reaction to them that we're seeing in the nation at large, are not about a single murder, and whether this one particular shooting incident was justifiable or not is largely irrelevant. The riots are about broader patterns of abuse - about the growth of prisons, about the gradual militarization of the civilian police force, about the racist and classist attitudes underlying our legal system, and most of all, about the steady creep of repression under the guise of national security. It's about poor people in a shitty area who've been kicked one two many times. The shooting itself is merely symbolic, and like most such incidents throughout history, the actual details about what happened are irrelevant at this point.
I mean, you were a veteran, Old People! You saw a lot more shit than I did, and you're more aware than anyone here of what it means to have a militarized force keeping public order. Ferguson is not Kabhul, the civilians there are not mujahideen. There's something deeply wrong with the picture when cops are willing to treat the streets of American cities like a war zone, isn't there? It's a conversation citizens want to have, and this is giving them an excuse to do so.
Homie said everything I coulda said.
What Homer said is sensible (though I do think the circumstances of the shooting are very relevant; the last thing we want is a police force like Argentina's, where police won't draw their weapons because it's not worth the criminal charges they'll inevitably face)... but it's a damn shame that it's the death of this particular dirtbag that has become a rallying point, and that a large part of the response seems to be indiscriminate burning and looting.
I know that defending law enforcement and the military is verboten on poetv, but it's worth noting that the cop who murdered this innocent child of peace had a 100% clean record and that, as is so often the case, his version of events is being ignored. As we used to say regarding the ROEs in Iraq, "wait until you feel the bullets entering your body before you return fire; that way you may be sure that it is not traditional Iraqi greeting shots". I remember a crowd control situation over there and how aghast one particular Iraqi was when he tried to grab my weapon and I struck him with the butt end. Perhaps I should have waited to see what he was going to do with it before I jumped to conclusions.
The militarization of law enforcement is frightening (and is a direct result of the stupidest elements of our "War on Terror"), the for-profit prison concept is unacceptable, and the high number of incidents in which officers used deadly force as a first resort means that our whole policing concept needs overhaul... but the circumstances of the Michael Brown shooting are murky enough that I'm unwilling to jump on the hate-cops bandwagon.
Old People sez:
"18 year old being an unarmed asshole at range? Shoot him to death and figure it out later!"
You're leaning toward defending a cop in a situation where, at first glance, he lost his shit and killed an asshole teenager....?
At first glance, the cop is 100% responsible. If other facts come to light, that's another story, but it appears that they shot him unarmed and running away. An 18 year old being an unthreatening asshole takes 0 responsibility away from the cop.
Secondarily, I am sure you did some dipshit stuff between the age of 15 and 25 that, if you'd have been caught, would have cast you in a negative light. The majority of boys and young men pull at least a few total dipshit moves and go on to become normal people.
If you want to say that cops get a lot of grief for this or that undeservedly, bring it up when it applies, man.
That Guy: You're picturing, as civilians often do, a nice, slow, almost static situation where Brown was just sort of standing there, saying please don't shoot me sir, as the cop snarled most racistly and casually took aim.
Now think how fast you can cover fifteen or twenty feet if you decide to charge someone. It's a matter of a second or two. If someone whom you've already assaulted is pointing their weapon at you and telling you to get on the ground, they have that second or two in which to make a judgement call that could cost them their life.
Finally (and here's where I get super-racist, hardcore conservative that I am!) take a look at Brown's picture. He's a big guy, and he's flashing a gang sign (sure, kids do that all the time, but he's from a neighborhood where it may actually be relevant). Take a look at the video of him doing "dipshit stuff" (robbery and assault. This isn't just dipshit kid stuff). He's a big, aggressive guy who knows how to throw his weight around. If he's already attacked you and tried to grab your gun, and he tries to rush you, what are you going to do? In the nice, leisurely civilian dream world I mentioned above, you'd holster your weapon, produce your pepper spray, issue a warning, and then gingerly spritz him while hoping you don't cause the poor fellow too much harm or fright. In reality, in that moment, it's him or you, and you put him down.
I hope you never end up in a combat situation, because it sucks, but if you do, you'll get a sense of what I'm getting at; shit goes down super-quick, and if you know someone's a threat, you act fast to neutralize that threat. It is a damn shame that Brown's hotheadedness and stupidity got him killed, but there are many more worthy causes to embrace than his.
The fact that Brown is a violent person (unlike Martin, who was provoked) casts doubt on all the witness testimony.
If the witness testimony is correct, that Brown was pumped full of bullets IN THE BACK while running away, then Old People's input is not valid, otherwise, his case is completely relevant.
I'm waiting until more facts come to light.
Remember when some stories came out that 17 or so other youths had been shot in Florida under stand your ground? Outraged at this factoid, I tracked down every single case, and in all but Martin's, the victims were participating in acts of violence against another person. Whether or not they should have been shot is not my call, as I don't know the details of every case, but it's interesting to note that none of them made the national news.
Autopsy's showing that all the shots hit him in the front.
Yeah, I just read that as well.
New facts or different facts change everything; as I mentioned, and your guess may be the right one. If someone my size or bigger rushed me and I had a gun, I'd do the same.
Maybe I'm just disagreeing with you over whether someone's first instinct should be to side with the cops or not in 2014...?
Whatever the situation, I hope that some very concrete or verifiable facts can come out so that it's not all testimony. That would just stir the shit more.
He was shot at least 6 times, all in the front, 2 in the head, according to the independently commissioned autopsy paid for by the family.
The police have not released their autopsy report.
All shots fired from the one cop's gun.
At least 1 shot was fired from the patrol car.
The testimony is all a total mess. It seems like none of it meshes with the 6 shots hitting Brown's front. Not the witnesses, not the police, nobody.
The DOJ told the police chief not to release this video, so that PD will probably have the DOJ up their butts for years to come, let's hope.
FBI/DOJ are running their own investigation, and have ordered a new autopsy.
Anonymous waded into this, probably before they knew enough to do so. To me, this is a shit move since I'd rather have them get involved only when the facts are iron-clad, like the Steubenville rape case etc.
|Spaceman Africa |
Wait so this incident happens at 11:54 am and Michael Brown is shot at 12:00 pm on a street blocks away. I guess the guy must be The Flash for that to work.
That was the lamest assault ever. He was just shoving him out of the way, albeit by his neck.
So, given that there's a video in the hopper right now of him paying for those cigars, shot from another angle that the police conveniently happened to not include here, and that the store owners have told CNN they didn't file any robbery complaint (because they weren't robbed), and that it seems like the guy came out to scold Mr. Brown for reaching over the counter to try and pick through the cigars for a fresher one, which is why that little confrontation at the end happened there, is there going to be any notes on this page? I mean, for posterity's sake.
Five for the evil of the police intent in releasing this the way they did.
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