The after call rant is garbage, but is the bakery allowed to decline to make a relatively mild cake like the one he requested according to US law?
Also, feel the Christian love... http://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2015/04/03/former-tele vangelist-sics-followers-on-local-bakery-to-make-a-point-about-rel igious-freedom
John Holmes Motherfucker
http://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2015/04/03/former-tele vangelist-sics-followers-on-local-bakery-to-make-a-point-about-rel igious-freedom
It's perfectly legal to decline specific distasteful work from all people.
It's illegal (in most states) to decline -all- work from a specific group of people.
Binro the Heretic
They're not refusing him service because of his religion. No mention of religion is ever made.
In fact, they're not technically even refusing him service. I'm sure they'd gladly make him a cake and let him add whatever message he wants on it himself.
This is akin to saying a restaurant refused you service because the waiter refused your request to say something racist when they served you the meal.
John Holmes Motherfucker
I could reluctantly get behind an establishment's right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, but calling it "religious freedom" is a special kind of bullshit.
What if a bakery refused to bake a pro-gay cake? What if, say, an LGBT couple asked the bakery to bake a gay wedding cake, and the bakery told them to go fuck themselves? They can have a straight cake or nothing at all.
We've seen how the "pro-gay" sector of society reacts to Chick-Fil-A and Miss California, and we've seen how the "pro-Christian" sector of society reacts to conscientious objections from health care workers and preachers. Open question for the PoE community: how now do "we" react to this situation here; is our reaction consistent, and what does this say about our values?
Binro the Heretic
Well, EvilHomer, here's my two bits:
If a bakery refused to serve someone because they were LGBT, promoted a pro-LGBT agenda or refused to provide a wedding cake for a same-sex couple, I would be pissed off and the refused customer would have a right to legal recourse.
If a bakery refused to write "Gay Pride" on a cake, but was willing to give the customer a cake with no message, I would be mildly annoyed and the customer would just have to either go to someone who would make them the gay pride cake or accept the blank cake and have the words added by someone else.
And as for this video and this guy in particular, he's an uninspired troll who deserves to be ignored more than anything.
John Holmes Motherfucker
I care about a gay person's right to have access to his/her partner's health insurance, or hospital visitation rights. These things should be guaranteed by law.
Don't care so much about cakes. An evangelical being forced to bake a cake for a gay wedding doesn't seem like a big tragedy, and neither does a gay couple having to go somewhere else for their cake.
as long as it's minor stuff like cakes, restaurants, hotels, bathrooms, and drinking fountains, I'm totally fine with making gays go somewhere else.
In my link, it wasn't the message on the cake. Some sites show that stock footage of two plastic women on top of a cake, but that's pretty universal. Basically, the cake lady wanted to customize the cake to fit the setting, mood, etc. and in the process found out that it was a lesbian wedding she was making the cake for. It had nothing to do with the message on the cake, if there was one at all. I assume most cake places (unless they're adult themed) wouldn't allow something crude like "fuck you" on the cake, they'd give you a blank one and you could write it yourself. It's not about what was on the cake, but whom it was for.
I love it when bottoms try to act butch.
It's infinitely amusing to me that this whole firestorm of gay rights vs religious bigotry is centered around cake of all things.
it's some kind of retarded conservative talking point memo thing going around, "blah blah cake shop owner, freedom, Jews forced to make Nazi cakes" etc., etc.
seeing it constantly.
How would THAT be the conservative talking point in this case? I am not saying you're wrong, SolRo, I don't really follow viral politics and for all I know that is exactly what's going on --- but surely, given the context, "Jews forced to make Nazi cakes" would be the Facebook talking point for the "gay rights" side of the debate, not the "conservative" one?
Same goes for "freedom". Why disparage "freedom", when "freedom" is really the one thing that gives the gay-rights side a leg up here?
If that memo is so retarded, then explain. What exactly *would* you say to Jews forced to make a Nazi cake? What would you say to gay bakers who cite their own civil freedoms when refusing service to anti-gay pastors?
At least where I live, many restaurants (especially bars that serve food) have a "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" sign. But, thanks to the civil rights act, it only accounts for rowdy patrons, if they're over capacity or it's last call, loitering/solicitation via non-patron colleagues, and hygiene. So it does raise an interesting question.
I feel like you guys are getting off topic. Please frame your responses in a cake-based narrative
The right wing has basically lost the gay marriage debate, cakes are needed for gay weddings, ergo, the only place left for them to throw a temper tantrum is wedding cakes.
They just drape it in little banners marked "freedom."
What's worse, though, is that the new "religious freedom" laws are geared to let corporations refuse to do certain things (like Hobby Lobby denying coverage for birth control) on the basis of religious belief. Until the law is brought before a judge, that can apply to anything, from health care to the race, creed, gender, etc. of people they want to refuse to hire from the get-go. It's a sickening attempt to allow bigots to use religion as cover to not adhere to all the anti-discrimination laws we've set in place over decades.
So SPK, are you saying that, in your opinion, people who refuse to bake anti-gay cakes are guilty of violating anti-discrimination laws, and if the bakers use their religious beliefs to get around these anti-discrimination laws ("I'm a Unitarian" etc), then they are guilty of being devious bigoted weasels who use their animal intellect to cunningly skirt around our sacred anti-discrimination laws?
Heaven forbid those gay bakers who own a private business trounce your inalienable right to get a homophobic slogan written on the cake you buy from them! Why, if those bigoted gay bakers weren't kept in line by the threat of prison, then hungry right-wing people would have to, like, go buy their cakes at a different cake store down the street! It'd be total anarchy.
stupid troll doesn't understand how the law currently works.
Dude's a bear but he styles his hair like a twink, he's obviously confused.
Bears. Twinks. The only difference is that one has diabetes.
The discriminating religion coming up against anti-discrimination law (again): who's freedoms get stepped on first? Stay tuned America!
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