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Desc:A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.
Category:Educational, Military
Tags:WWII, war, statistics, World War 2
Submitted:Albuquerque Halsey
Date:06/04/15
Views:1210
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Comment count is 10
Nominal - 2015-06-04
Eh, I guess? It took 7 minutes to say that a lot of Soviet troops died compared to other countries, in a way that wasn't any more effective than just showing a graph. Why not just skip straight to the graph? Then at 16 minutes, when they reach the ultimate point of comparing total deaths to past wars, you don't even get to see the top of the bar graph that goes off screen. It ends up being a 16 minute animated projected that's pointless to animate and isn't even done very well.

The entire time I was thinking, "This seems like it was made by some Mac dork in Final Cut for a media class final project," and lo and behold following the link.

My big issue is his constant use of "Nazi troops" instead of "German troops". Why not say, "communist troops" when mentioning Soviet deaths? Imagine saying, "Neo con troops" or "Republican troops" when talking about Afghanistan and Iraq.
Void 71 - 2015-06-05
Or Democratic troops when talking about American troops in both of the world wars.

StanleyPain - 2015-06-04
Didn't watch the whole thing, but I'm curious if it mentions the reason why Russians suffered so many dead is because Stalin basically said "fuck it" to even bothering doing anything about the Russian POWs in Germany and even when they were eventually released (those that survived the death camps) they were just all promptly murdered when they got back to Russia.
SolRo - 2015-06-05
There's also the reason of Nazis thinking slavs needed to be cleansed from the earth just like jews.

It's the same reason americans strangely had a ton more Japanese PoW deaths than german PoW deaths.

EvilHomer - 2015-06-05
Well, yes and no, SolRo. The Nazis certainly had a very dim view of Slavs, but the original intention was simply to deport and/or enslave them. As with the Jews, the Nazi policy of extermination came about gradually and organically, as a consequence of their worsening military situation. The more their world was falling apart, both on the front and back at home, the more desperate and inclined towards barbarity the Germans became, for reasons both psychological and practical.

The Germans' point of view may be easier to understand if one considers it's direct parallel: the way that the Russians themselves treated their prisoners. The Russians were, after all, pretty notorious for their treatment of Germans, civilian and POW, before and after the war. Eastern Europe suffered more under the Red Army than it did under the Nazis, and German POWs (almost three million of whom wound up in Soviet concentration camps) had an initial death rate of over 60%! The main reason for this Soviet barbarity was a combination of anger and utilitarian need - the Russians were locked in a life-or-death struggle. They were furious, desperate, and frankly didn't have the resources necessary to care for the Germans whom they'd enslaved, even if they'd wanted to. When the Soviets rolled into Poland and Eastern Germany, raping and pillaging and carrying on like savages, it was because *the absolute brutality of their war* had turned them into savages - a crashing wave of thirty million men, all fueled by PTSD. It wasn't because the Soviets had been plotting to devastate Eastern Europe all along; sitting in their little ice-bound homes since the death of Lenin, dreaming of how they could one day outshine even the Nazis, and wear the mantle of history's most prolific mass-murderers.

I mean, that IS what happened, yes sure, but my point is that it happened organically, the coldly logically result of an ever-growing spiral of horror. The Russians may have been monsters, but they were *believable* monsters.

EvilHomer - 2015-06-05
(Well, mostly believable. The pre-war Red Army purges and the Soviet mistreatment / outright murder of their own veterans was pretty fucked up, but to understand that you have to dive balls deep into the bizarre world of Stalin and collectivism, getting us really off-topic.)

Anyway, you make the following statement:

>> It's the same reason americans strangely had a ton more Japanese PoW deaths than german PoW deaths.

Do you have any statistics or sources to support this claim? Fewer than fifty-thousand Japanese soldiers were captured by Allied forces during the war, and while higher death rates for Japanese POWs certainly sounds like a believable claim, one clearly has to ask: precisely to what extent are we talking here?

Does "a ton" mean fifty percent? Five percent? A whole twenty dudes, as opposed to none? Qualify this statement, please.

godot - 2015-06-05
The vast majority of Japanese surrenders went to Australia and New Zealand camps, and as far as I can tell, besides the Featherston (NZ) prisoner of war camp riot in February 1943, there isn't much evidence of large-scale infractions against Japan POWs.

SolRo - 2015-06-06
They had a tendency to trip and fall on bullets before they made it to any camps, those blind slit-eyed chinks I-tell-ya-what.

EvilHomer - 2015-06-06
Again, SolRo, I have to ask you to please provide sources! Assuming, of course, there are any sources at all; as Godot points out, "there isn't much evidence of large-scale infractions against Japan POWs".

EvilHomer - 2015-06-06
... for example, StanleyPain made a rather dramatic claim about Soviet POWs being murdered upon their return home. This initially sounded fantastic to me, but as it turns out, it's true! Here is a source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_mistreatment_of_Soviet_pr isoners_of_war#Soviet_repressions_against_former_prisoners_of_war< br />

Now, y̲o̲u̲ provide a source, please. Or concede your error.

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