Did we watch the same video?

I submitted this, because it seemed like a natural, but I voted against it when I realized I couldn't bring myself to watch it.

JHM, if you had submitted this because it was a volatile mix of actual injustice, YET an unsettling narrator whose emphasis is certainly not even-handed, my respect for you would have grown immensely.

You would have leveled up.

"Actual injustice exploited shamelessly by self-serving huckster" ought to be close enough to get me partial credit.

Ever see TJ's video about Amanda Todd getting too much attention for her suicide? He rants about other dead kids not getting as many Facebook likes, and then he really kicks it into overdrive. He starts talking about all the starvation in the world, showing pictures of dying children, and droning on about how hypocritical it is to care about one girls suicide.


He didn't seem to know anything about Amanda Todd, and how she'd been targeted by a sexual predator. His last video had been a rant about Honey BooBoo, which sort of undercuts his point about how caring about one girl's suicide is somehow trivial.

Also, if you watch the whole video, you realize that TJ is mostly butthurt about being criticized for being an asshole by PZ Myers. The suffering of all the starving people in third world countries is pretty much just a prop that TJ drags in to give him a little more piss in his petty personal pissing contest.

oh holy crap
ok, points given

although, since you guessed this vid would be that combination without watching it, I should either give you 1/2 credit, or double.

Because if you're not a feminist, you are a rapist.

Hopper war because this guy's rhetorical thrust, at least in terms of amount of time given, is on evidencing the bad behavior of some women, and not perhaps situating his claim within the broader discussion of rape. For instance, this guy might have said something like: "Rape is serious problem, effecting men and women, though it seems disproportionately effects women. One of the problems that arises when discussing how rape effects women are questions about the how much rape disproportionately effects women, which then leads to secondary discussions about the prevalence of false rape accusations towards men by women and whether this is also a problem. In this video I want to suggest false accusations are at least prevalent enough to be taken seriously, as evidenced by the following, and that because the stakes are so high for those falsely accused that we remain diligent in our application to due process for the accused--issues of women not getting fair due process being another issue and an important one."

TLDR; this guy's argument appears to be bashing women because he spends so much time focusing on false accusers, thus hopper war.

Especially when you consider this is at least his third video on the topic of false rape accusations.

Damn it. I wanted to put in a good word here for the presumption of innocence and right to a fair trial, no matter how silly MRAs are -- hell, even the Nazis had Nuremburg. But that would put me on the same side of the argument as EvilHomer and... nah. Just not worth it.

It's OK, Hazelbutt. I got you.

as a man, i dont know what's going on, but that it just feels so good to be persecuted

if any of you fine ladies want in on this, my hobbies include:

starting impromptu d&d sessions

using less frequent incidents to shift the social narrative to my own benefit

reading newspaper comic strips

>> If you read enough MRA comments you'll find the myth expressed that 75 per cent of rape accusations are unfounded

Sources?

>> That amounts to a presumption of guilt for victims.

Yes, I suppose that "presumption of guilt for alleged victims" is another way of phrasing the concept, "presumption of innocence for the accused".

>>Yes, I suppose that "presumption of guilt for alleged victims" is another way of phrasing the concept, "presumption of innocence for the accused".

It's not. The presumption of innocence goes both ways. Failure to prove the accused guilty isn't proof that the accuser has committed perjury.

So that's what you're worried about? If accused rapists aren't found guilty, then victims will face wrongful perjury charges? What do you propose to fix this problem?

Also, you haven't answered my request for sources.

the averages of false rape accusations lies typically in the 5-10% range, based on country and year, but that seems to be a good indicator. (this is from Wiki, but sources are valid), so essentially, MRA's are attempting to diminish the verisimilitude of the fact that the overwhelming majority of rape accusations are legitimate.

i think the AA (and MRAs in general) puts on a pretty good act of caring about the state of the US criminal justice system, but I really think it comes down to him being a unattractive (personality much more than looks, he's probably a solid 5) yet horny guy who isn't getting what he believes is owed to him. He believes that by diminishing the legitimacy of the crime of rape, he can reduce the burden of personal responsibility for the faults in his sexual relationships. I've totally been there. I think most of us have at some shitty part of our lives. The thing that makes the AA so deserving of scorn is his inability to move beyond or get over that mindset. He just seems like a very self centered brat. He should get out and actually meet some of the people he's constantly railing against. I realize that i am projecting and i'm also a social worker by training, but he should develop a little empathy and cut back on the solipsism, which i think is at the root of his worldview.

oh, and i don't want to diminish the very real fact of false accusations. that is a terrible thing that the reason i'm 100% against the death penalty. Aside from that ultimate finality, we operate in a system without absolute certainty (and there is the fact that 1/3 of rapes go unreported in the US). At the end of the day, one can only hope the full extent of the justice system will be applied fairly. But it would be disingenuous to state that there is equal or greater likelihood that the raped is lying.

*at least 1/3* (i believe that's accurate, i AM a social worker by the way)
i'm sorry, had a couple drinks after work and didn't have time to fully research my polemical tone poem response to an Amazing Atheists video.

>> the averages of false rape accusations lies typically in the 5-10% range, based on country and year, but that seems to be a good indicator... so essentially, MRA's are attempting to diminish the verisimilitude of the fact that the overwhelming majority of rape accusations are legitimate.

That's all well and good, but it raises a further question: what percentage of crimes *other than rape* are falsely reported? According to Bloomberg {1}, the average rate of false felony reporting is between 1 and 2%. If your numbers are true, Mr Blue Vein, then that would make rapes up to ten times more likely to be misreported than other types of felonies - a fairly significant number!

>> i think the AA (and MRAs in general) puts on a pretty good act of caring about the state of the US criminal justice system, but I really think it comes down to him being a unattractive (personality much more than looks, he's probably a solid 5) yet horny guy who isn't getting what he believes is owed to him.

Maybe, but this is ad hominem. The Amazing Atheist is a dick, I will not dispute that; I myself strongly dislike him, and have long felt that he is a sloppy thinker, a bully, and an egotistical jerk! Yet his motives for making this video are irrelevant. The question which really matters is: the argument he's making, is it valid?



{1} http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-19/how-many-rape-rep orts-are-false

>> But it would be disingenuous to state that there is equal or greater likelihood that the raped is lying.


I agree with you 100%, but I think this is a misrepresentation of Mr Atheist's argument. I watched the whole thing (or rather, kept it playing in the background while I cooked my dinner) and I do not recall him ever making this claim.

In fact, so far as I can tell, the only person who HAS made this claim is our good friend, John Holmes Motherfucker; I am still looking for a source on the statement "75 per cent of rape accusations are unfounded", as the highest numbers I've been able to find are between 20 and 40%.

>>In fact, so far as I can tell, the only person who HAS made this claim is our good friend, John Holmes Motherfucker; I am still looking for a source on the statement "75 per cent of rape accusations are unfounded", as the highest numbers I've been able to find are between 20 and 40%.

(facepalm) Here's what I said:

>>If you read enough MRA comments you'll find the myth expressed that 75 per cent of rape accusations are unfounded, just like that, like it's some kind of statistic.

Readers of English will note that it's not being presented as a fact; it's something I've seen in youtube comments. I'm not going to supply a link,because it would be impossible to find, and surely no one needs proof that people post stupid things in youtube comments.

All good points EH, but in the end my only point is that his intent with making this list is to de-legitimize legitimate rape accusations, which is bad and why no one like the AA

The MRA narrative is that false rape accusations happen all the time, when women get "buyer's remorse" after consensual sex, and decide to lie about it. That's the narrative this video intends to support, and, fuck yes, that's relevant.

These things do happen, rarely. Back in 1979, my first real girlfriend had a friend who was in jail for rape, awaiting trial for a year. According to my first girlfriend, who I do believe, when he finally got his trial, the woman who accused him got up on the stand, and her stpory just collapsed like a tent in a hurricane. Years ago, I read an opinion piece by Alan Dershowitz in Penthouse. This was like the early eighties, so I'm just going to tell you that Dershowitz provided some figures of accusations of crime in general that were proven to be false, and accusations of rape that were proven to be false. I'm not going to try to pull the stats out of memory, because I'd just wind up pulling them out of my ass. Both numbers were low, The rape numbers were slightly higher.

What happens a lot more often, I'm guessing, is confusion about consent. The John Oliver video on Sex education mentioned a poll of young people who disagreed widely on how consent is communicated, and there used to be a whole sexist ritual built on dominance and surrender. Women resisting, and men overcoming resistance, was how sex was initiated. Women could "give in" but "not too fast". I can think of women I dated in the eighties, and the first time sex was initiated was definitely something I could be prosecuted for today, but back then, there was more dates and lots more sex, sometimes initiated by the woman.

@JHM as for your original comment on here, that's an exaggerated number, but it's true that professors have to be sensitive of "trigger warnings" for all students, either putting it in a disclaimer or not saying it at all and using some sort of metaphor, kind of like that sex ed teacher who uses the sock on his foot in lieu of a condom and a banana.

And in some cases this makes sense! I'm sure lots of you had to dissect fetal pigs in high school, and if you didn't want to, you just signed something and co-signed with your parents and did some other assignment instead. But for many college courses, say, criminal/sexual law, if a student is triggered by the word "rape" then a case regarding rape cannot be discussed. And that's pretty fucked up. It's like wanting to join the army but no guns please, or, I want to be a heart surgeon but I hate blood so none of that stuff please. But if the professor goes ahead and takes that attitude they will most likely lose their jobs at the university, so ostensibly we're training a bunch of criminal defense attorneys who will have all the knowledge of an episode of Matlock.

We all hate you.

This man is the God Damn Batman and he once pissed on a crowd of people. Another time he was involved in a gang war between the Riddler's henchmen and a pack of retards.

I have many feelings for gambol, but "hate" is not one of them.

I actually have no opinion.

isn't that why you should 5-star it on poetv?????

5 question marks for you

>:C

****.5 and kudos

Take 'em, dude.

But then I'll falsely accuse you of raping my stars because you didn't ask for consent.

A legitimate candidate for the best post I've ever seen in here.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/TheAmazingAtheist

re: link
holy fuckin' shit

>>I have yet to be told by one victim that it increased their trauma.

If you're a rape survivor, and something this piece of shit says has caused you pain, are you going to give him the satisfaction of telling him? Doubtful.