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Comment count is 16
StanleyPain - 2017-09-17

Over the last year or so I have been working my way through all of Star Trek (I'm on season 4 of Voyager right now) and DS9 was by far the best, overall, I think, and it the little moments like this really helped.

(though, I was pretty disappointed with how clumsily they ended the series)

Meerkat - 2017-09-18

You mean with the full season of Vic Whatever's musical holosuite adventures?

Or do you mean with the way too many episodes of Lwuxana Troi?

DS9 had a lot of potential but they screwed the pooch trying to jam too much cutesy shit in.

William Burns - 2017-09-18

Maybe you should talk to Worf again

StanleyPain - 2017-09-18

Bullshit episodes are part of Star Trek, so I really don't mind them (or skip them). Thank the dumb-ass 80s/90s American tradition of seasons with 20+ episodes and producers/writers going nuts trying to figure out how to fill it all in.

Bort - 2017-09-18

I kind of don't mind that the Dominion War was resolved so neatly. So much of the point of Trek should be optimism and the need to stick by principles, and why did the Dominion War come to a happy end? Because a couple of nobodies on a remote space station decided they weren't willing to let Section 31 end the threat of the Founders through genocide. Also, because a nobody-Klingon was willing to stand up to a tyrant, and not become one himself. I am okay with that.

There are those who are disappointed that Gul Dukat "turned" evil, but I think the series was right to finally decide on what to make of him: strip away the excuses, and he was willing to destroy Bajor if he couldn't control it. The show was getting way too comfortable giving Dukat nuance, to the point where he was becoming a misunderstood and maligned good guy. (The writers even considered a Dukat / Kira romance, but Nana Visitor put her foot down on that. Good for her!)

chumbucket - 2017-09-18

I'm also working my way through the series. I'm still back on S2 of DS9 and final season of TNG. I wasn't a big fan of DS9 initially and least of all Quark. But upon this fresh viewing, I'm more in the Quark camp. DS9 in general is a fresh take on Trek and I appreciate it more for what it tried to do.

StanleyPain - 2017-09-18

My issue with the end of DS9 (SPOILERS I guess for people watching the show....)

....was that it was just so clumsy how there so many issues to be wrapped up and Odo is just all "wait, I'll link with the Founder" and then all 4-5 years of the Dominion war is just over. No explanation. No apology. Nothing about how they were convinced of this or what guarantee anyone has that they will never attack people again, etc. etc. It's just kinda done. It wouldn't have been so bad if the entire sub-plot about the Pah Wraiths had meant anything. I loved that whole subplot, I thought it was really clever and made Dukat into a more interesting character than you usually see on ST, but it really deserved it's own episode to conclude rather than the end of the whole series being boiled down to a 5 minute thing where Sisko is *literally* like "Oh wait....I forgot to do something" almost like the writers are saying that themselves. But despite that, DS9 still has a lot of strengths that have yet to be duplicated by any ST yet.

I'm on Voyager now and it's entertaining...not nearly as bad as I was expecting, and I like how the setting forces the writing to deal with issues outside of all the usual shit ST has used as a crutch for so long, but it also has it's problems too.

StanleyPain - 2017-09-18

Oh another thing: As I understand it, Star Trek Online is so far the only media, outside of the books, which has dealt with the ST setting post-DS9. I havent' played the game myself, but I have heard it does have quests and storylines and areas that wrap up some details about the show and things of that nature. Apparently the Female Founder is a major character later on in that game and there are stories having to do with her being in Federation prison and things like that.

Again, I have never played the game myself (haven't really felt like the 80+ gig download to check it out), but I guess it has sort of become the repository for some post-DS9/post-Voyager lore.

Bort - 2017-09-18

I agree that the DS9 finale tried to do too much too fast, and the Pah Wraith thing felt tacked on.

The Founder shapeshifter played by Salome Jens (of "Terror from the Year 5000") did stand her forces down and agree to be tried by the Federation, so that much was at least a good-faith measure. That said, did you really want to see Odo and her debate the nature of Solids? I thank the writers for sparing me that.

The end of the Dominion War should have been a bloody spectacle that wrecked every power involved. Even the Founders were dying, they had nothing to lose by bringing everyone down around them. That's how it should have ended ... EXCEPT some doctor and engineer back on DS9 realized that Section 31 had inflicted a deadly illness upon the Founders, and weren't about to let that stand. They disobeyed orders, figured out how to get the info they needed, and developed a cure, even though that was exactly the wrong step to take from a practical point of view. But it was also the thing that allowed Odo to link with Salome Jens. In Trek, principles matter.

The Mothership - 2017-09-17

Yea, ok, so I missed this the first time around. Good bit, 5 stars. A very late 90s bit.

This would never have made sense in STTNG.

Nikon - 2017-09-18

This is my favorite Trek show overall.

Mother Lumper - 2017-09-18

Deep Space 9 always gets a vote from me in the hopper.

There's a monstrously ugly officially licensed coffee mug out there, molded in the shape of Quark's head. It exists because while this show was great, as a consequence of it being set in the Star Trek universe a large contingent of people will buy the merchandise because they can't think of anything else to do with themselves.

Nikon - 2017-09-20

If the mug brought them some measure of happiness, it's probably all right.

Dr. Lobotomy - 2017-09-18

What I always liked about DS9 was the near constant presence of a neutral 3rd party observer character(Quark, Garak, Odo sometimes) to call out the BS the Federation sometimes pulled.

The Quark and Garak Root Beer scene is memorable to me.

cognitivedissonance - 2017-09-18

I made my own Ferengi head for a Halloween costume when I was 12. Then DS9 happened and I grew to hate them. I wanted an adventure show, not a soap opera. I still watch OS Star Trek to chill out and see their weird adventures, punching God-Of-The-Week in the face.

Nominal - 2021-03-13

DS9 fell into a strange space for me. It had a lot of high watermarks for Trek, but a lot of lows and downsides that made only appreciable in hindsight.

I think the main reason was that it had one foot in the Babylon 5 epic story arc camp, but another foot in the TNG camp. The former soap opera approach wasn't very compatible with the latter where the situations were always more interesting than the characters in them. TOS and TNG got away with only having one and a half interesting characters because the situations of the self contained episodes were great.

DS9's soap opera never grabbed me because it was still half dedicated to the mundane goings on of a station I didn't care for with characters I didn't care for. Sisko, Kira, Quark and company COULD be interesting, but most of the time they were putting you to sleep with baseball or sitcom antics, and that's not even getting into the chronically boring like Bashir and the hell that was O'Brien's home life. All that stuff felt like TNG's first season fumblings when they expected you to care about Riker and Troi's past love life.

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