I agree anyway.
In fact I think being categorist in any way is stupid.
By categorist I mean: making judgements about an individual based on whatever category you have filed them under, for whatever property they display.

Its just not logical, ure basically pulling 'data' about someone from ure own ass.

And yes, human minds naturally subconsciously do this all the time; As they do all kinds of equally stupid stuff.
The goal is to not consciously do it, and try to catch yourself doing it subconsciously, by interrogating any ideas you have about someone that seem to have popped into your head without any actual supporting evidence.

Can we agree that screeching ANTISEMITISM!!!! at anyone that doesn’t like rich people or criticizes the Israeli apartheid state actually dilutes the meaning of the phrase and turns it into a boy-who-cried-wolf situation?

When idiots like you use it as a political cudgel it makes it that much harder to identify and confront real antisemitism (feat. neo-nazis and conservatives)

We’re not talking about Israel in this thread, SolRo. We’re not talking about the rich. We’re talking specifically about hatred and prejudice against Jews.

Can you, SolRo, acknowledge that anti-Semitism is wrong? I hate that it’s even necessary to ask you this question, but it is.

Fuck off homer

SolRo, this isn’t the time for slippery dodging and avoidance. Time and again you’ve used borderline anti-Semitic language or crossed the line completely. I don’t want to believe you mean it; I hope you were just speaking angrily and over-broadly, but it’s hard to keep making excuses for you.

So please, please, PLEASE can you just agree that anti-Semitism is wrong?

Or at least tell us what you really believe. Don’t take the cowardly, Trumpian path of flirting with racist language then hiding behind ambiguity.

Fuck off homer

Why is SolRo unable to acknowledge that anti-Semitism is wrong? Plenty of prominent critics of Israel are firmly insistent that prejudice and hatred of Jews is unacceptable and wrong.

But not SolRo. Why?

Fuck off homer

Shame on you.

Thanks for proving my point Meghan McCain

You’re not fooling anybody by squirming and dodging and insulting. It should be the easiest thing in the world to say “yes, anti-semitism is wrong.” It should be the FIRST thing you say. It is not a controversial statement!

If you can’t do that — if you’re too hateful to eschew racism and too cowardly to admit it — then shame on you.

OK Meghan

Today we've seen the real SolRo. I'm sad about that. I genuinely thought better of him.

Keep up your screeching Meghan

Are you willing to admit that the real problem of anti Semitism isn't just coming from idiot white power retards? You have proven you will look the other way when it comes to Jew bashing if it's coming from the Muslim community. Who you don't think are apparently even capable of being anti Semitic. And gee, guess why Europe is seeing a huge escalation of hate crimes against Jews.

No, really, just guess.

You are part of the problem. Thanks for nothing.

The problem with the left is that they are great at calling out racism and antisemitism unless it is coming directly from them. The anti Semitic sentiment is growing on the left and it's repulsive. Black Israelites shoot up a kosher deli in Jersey City and the media barely bats an eye but a celebrity says something in a tweet they can twist around and they are all over it.

And yes, anti Semitism is completely evil. I think the ongoing association of Judaism with distrust and conspiracy theory is disgusting.

Brandow is on your side Meghan, congratulations!

Of course I'm taking his side. He thinks Anti semitism is wrong. I'm not a total asshole, in spite of what several people here think. I can say with no hesitation (unlike you...for some reason) that we should all agree that Anti Semitism is proliferating and should be strongly opposed.

Islamophobes like Brawndo and anti-Semites like Solro can both fuck off.

Brandow is on your side Meghan, congratulations!

My “side” is against all prejudice, whether against Jews or Muslims. It sounds like neither you nor Brawndo are on it, which is a fucking shame.

SolRo, is this really the person you want to be?

Better than being an evilhomer

Shame on you.

What is wrong with evil Homer, I miss his ass

Okay, so you're mask off now?

No one is evil homer, except for evil homer. He's been gone and isnt sock puppeting. I miss him as well. Homer, please return

I share your affection for the order Testudines. And I apologise for how stupid these arguments become. But I'm sick to death of some people flirting with anti-Semitism. And the recent Auschwitz commemorations (which got a lot of airplay here in the UK) really brought home how it is anything but harmless.

Way to politicize turtles, Meghan

Thanks Jeremy Corbyn?

We’re not talking about "the rich" in this thread. We’re talking specifically about the threat posed by hatred and prejudice against Jews.

If you deplore the kind of anti-Semitism described in this video, then congratulations, you're a minimally decent human being. If not, you need to go crawl back under your rock.

Haha oh don't compare us. Thanks.

We have a British idiot that fell hard for the ‘leftists hate Jews’ diatribe right wing media over there used so effectively to bring down the labor party, and now American conservatives are testing out here.

The broad strokes are that anyone that hates rich people or corrupt corporations or Israeli war crime is actually an antisemite.

Also every single Muslim hates Jews, but especially if they’re leftist politician Muslims

Have you ever talked to Muslims about Jews? Have you? I have. I have had Muslims casually tell me they thought killing all the Jews is a great idea. Some of them think Hitler was a great man for all the Jews he killed. I have heard these words, in person, from Muslim mouths.

The problem with you is you need to stop being so sheltered. The real world doesn't work the way we want it to. It's great to want all minorities to fall under the same umbrella and say we are all on the same page but I can guarantee you that as a Catholic, as a staunch anti communist and as a human being, I think sharia law is evil as fuck and the majority of Muslims are radical and fundamentalist and think nothing of the idea of genocide.

But they're really good at hiding that shit to get what they want here in the US. Look up the shit CAIR does sometime. Guess who opposed the Antisemitism Awareness Act? That's right, it was CAIR.

I wonder why.

Islamophobes like Brawndo and anti-Semites like Solro can both fuck off.

Brandow is on your side Meghan, congratulations!

My “side” is against all prejudice, whether against Jews or Muslims. It sounds like neither you nor Brawndo are on it, which is a fucking shame.

RIP POE

I don’t use words like anti-Semitic lightly. SolRo has ranted against “Zionists”, peddled neo-Nazi conspiracy theoriss about George Soros, furiously attacked any suggestion that anti-Jewish prejudice is wrong. Read thie depressing comments section of this page over again and see he STILL can’t bring himself to simply renounce anti-Semitism.

If he could just once say ‘prejudice against Jews is wrong’ we’d be done here. But he refuses to say it, apparently because he doesn’t believe it.

Brandow is on your side Meghan, congratulations!

Also you use antisemite like a fish uses water

You’re part of the problem


Also you’re a lying piece of human garbage who just makes shit up.

Also also you’re probably a pedophile and a rapist and a polygamist and a zoophile and a murderer and a jay walker and you spit on an orphan once

Am I making it up that you wrote “Zionists have redefined anti-semitism to cover anything or anyone not goose-stepping to israel's apartheid policy”? Am I making it up that you STILL refuse to distance yourself from anti-Semitism on this page?

I really thought you were better than this. I hope you become so. You can start by actually watching the goddamn video.

So youre defending Israel’s right to kill Muslims?

Dodge, squirm, lie, dodge, squirm, lie. I’m thoroughly opposed to the Israeli government. I still say anti-Semitism is vile and wrong.

Why the fuck can’t you? What’s wrong with you?

Why would I play defensively to an idiots accusations, when that idiot doesn’t know what Zionist means, while screeching like he’s the worlds foremost expert on antisemitism

Go home Meghan

Opposing anti-Semitism isn’t “playing defensively”, it’s very basic human decency. I want to believe that deep down you know this.

One more try, one more chance. Will you please, PLEASE agree with me that both antisemitism and islamophobia are grotesque and wrong?

Hazelnut, I will agree with you that Islamophobia and anti-Semitism are both incredibly wrong.

I don't feel I qualify as an Islamophobe since I criticize

a) the religion itself for having a hateful attitude towards non-Muslims (especially Jews, who Mohammad called untrustworthy), atheists, gays, and apostates.

b) Muslims today for being largely radicalized and for promoting anti Semitism. It's often in their textbooks.

The problem is, the Muslims who aren't bigots in the Muslim community often do not speak out about the problems with bigotry within the Muslim community. They don't want to be targeted. The intelligentsia often keeps its mouth shut on religious matters. The majority that hates Jews wins.

And the big problem that the left has right now is in not admitting that. They want Muslims to vote for their candidates but they don't want to admit anything about the more unsavory aspects of Islam, what it entails for women or any minority that they happen to enshrine as evil. I really do not understand why you can't admit that Muslims are often bigots. Maybe it would make your head explode because you buy into intersectionalism automatically do defend minorities. The whole excuse that minorities can't also be bigots is deeply mistaken and deluded. Ever been to Brazil? I have, and they treat black people there like SHIT. White racists in the US don't have a monopoly on hate and stupidity.

But hey feel free to ignore it when it doesn't meet your narrow pre conceived notion of how every Muslim must be a victim. If you are ever forced at the point of law to pray five times a day under threat of jail or torture, maybe you'll change your tune about how perfect Muslims are and how they don't make any mistakes at all in their fucked up cultures.

Gruuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ewww. You don't know how gross and slimy I feel that motherfucking BRAWNDO is able to provide a more thoughtful answer than SolRo dares to.

That was not how this was supposed to go.

I genuinely like SolRo. I'm depressed that his hateful side is winning out over his caring side. And Marlon, it probably won't surprise you to hear that I've come to thoroughly dislike you.

And yet, when someone makes an apparent attempt to engage with me rationally as an adult, whether they're sincere or not, I feel compelled to respond in the same idiom. So strap yourself in sugartits, it's time for a ride on the humanism train.

Let's suspend disbelief for a minute and take you at your word that you don't really hate Muslims, you just have a sharp disagreement with the tenets of the religion and big reservations about oppression in Muslim-majority countries, and you think we liberals are too biased to take those concerns seriously.

If so, first I want to tell you that I share both of those concerns! As an atheist and secular humanist I dislike the tenets of most religions. The Torah, the Bible, the Koran -- when I read them I find (in my personal opinion) a record of the petty hatreds and jealousies of the past mixed with biased confused history, some legitimately beautiful poetry, and the occasional tidbit of decent ethics.

That does not mean I get to go attacking Christians, Jews, and Muslims as people. Ideology and religious tenets are one thing, human identities are another. If you have a problem with extremist fundamentalists, great, I do too. (I also have a problem with extremist fundamentalist atheism, like the old Soviet Union at its worst.)

Don't like oppression in places like Saudia Arabia? Me too! I hate it! I want to see laws against FGM as severe as any other act of extreme life-affecting violence. But if you're sincere about this -- remember I'm still suspending disbelief -- you really do need to learn to express it better. Otherwise you distract from your message and make it sound like you're using the bad conditions in some countries to just hate on some groups.

What really set me off in an earlier thread, for instance, is when you referred to "all Muslims". That word "all" when you're stereotyping some group of human beings is a red flag, and for a deadly serious reason: because deindividuation is a major step towards dehumanization and from there to atrocity. When you stop seeing people as people, as INDIVIDUALS each with their own minds and opinions, you take a horrible step down that road.

If you didn't mean to do that, then you do need to watch your language and not paint with such a broad brush. Saying "They're kind as long as they know you aren't something they are trained to despise (Jew, gay, atheist, apostate, anyone who criticizes them or insinuates their cult isn't perfect)" as you did earlier is simply factually wrong and deeply offensive. I genuinely do know a bunch of Muslims who are super-tolerant and mingle perfectly well with Jews, gays, and little atheist me. If on the other hand you say "Countries like Saudia Arabia have a big problem with anti-Semitism and homophobia" I can't imagine anyone reasonable would object to that.

You might think you shouldn't need to "censor" your speech to accommodate "snowflakes" like me, and that's your choice, but history shows this shit is important, and if you go on exercising your free speech right to painting groups with a broad brush I'll go on exercising my right to tell you to fuck off.

Let's try another one.

WRONG: "Also the Muslims that say they would willingly disown a family member for becoming an apostate/non-believer"

RIGHT: "Some Muslim countries have severe laws against apostasy, and both those laws and the intolerant attitudes behind them them are fucked up."

Does that make sense? It's not just euphemism or political correctness. To me these are very different statements. One comes from a place of hate, the other a wish to better the world. You mentioned you're a Catholic: one idea from Christianity I truly admire is "hate the sin, love the sinner."

Finally, if you want to have more effective adult conversations, you gotta stop putting over-the-top words in other people's mouths. I have never once argued "how perfect Muslims are and how they don't make any mistakes at all" and you know it. In fact that would be totally contradict my belief (I would call it an obvious fact) that Muslims and Jews are HUMAN, because humans are anything but perfect.

When you say that sarcastic stuff ("But hey feel free to ignore it when it doesn't meet your narrow pre conceived notion of how every Muslim must be a victim") you're not helping your own point -- you're certainly not convincing anyone -- and you're not demolishing anyone else's point because nobody's making that point. All it does is sound spiteful, self-pitying, and insincere.

But hey, I used to ladle out that kind of sarcasm - probably most of us did before we grew out of it. You'll notice that while SoloRo uses a ton of it ("So youre defending Israel’s right to kill Muslims?") I am at great pains not to put words in his mouth; I'll quote him, I'll note disturbing tendencies, but I've actually been very careful to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he cuts out the shit and disavows anti-Semitism nobody will be happier than me, even though this will mean I've "lost" the argument!

Similarly it's unhelpful to the point of useless to talk about "the left" like we're some kind of undifferentiated block that all thinks the same. Actually the "left" comprises an enormous variety of perspectives and opinions. Again, avoid deindividuation. If we were all mindless clones in a single echo chamber I'd probably be getting a long a lot better with SolRo today. The truth is there are great people on the left and right, total assholes on the left and right. People are complicated. SolRo manages to cover all four boxes at the same time.

I hope some of that makes sense and that your thoughts about Muslims will continue to develop. I seriously think having a few good Muslim friends would change your whole perspective. Of course if you ever sort THAT out then there's still your attitude to African Americans, transsexuals, and women. So I still think extremely ill of you, but really if anything we should try extra hard to communicate with the people we dislike.

When I use the term "all Muslims" I am going with the core tenets that you must believe certain things in order to be Muslim. The word of the Qu'ran is holy and every word is enshrined as truth. Perhaps I missed the boat in that not every Muslim believes everything in the Qu'ran but then you have a logic circle. In order to be Muslim, they must qualify as Muslim only if they do believe in every word of the Qu'ran. So I contend that when I made that statement, we might both be correct in our interpretations. I was going on the assumption that in order to qualify as Muslim, you must believe every word without including Muslims that either don't know the entire Qu'ran or cherry pick out what they don't personally believe. In other words, Muslims that don't pass the qualifications of being a Muslim according to Islam but self-identify as such anyway.

As far as telling me the "correct" way to discuss Islam and apostates, I think what you really want is for me to sugar coat reality. You don't want me to mention people who throw out their family members for choosing to give up Islam. Again, have you ever met anyone that has actually gone through this? One of the reasons I've gotten so dismissive with you is because I think you are not considering the reality of what we're discussing. When I bring these topics up, I KNOW PEOPLE that have gone through this. I've witnessed this shit FIRST HAND. I have seen some real fucking ugliness from the Muslim community when they punish their own. It is NOT fucking pretty and it does NOT congeal with Western values. But if I talked about Christians throwing out their kids, you would probably be more receptive to hearing about that because the left eats it up when Christians are being mocked. For the record, I think anyone that disowns family members over religion is disgusting.

Also the statement I made "Also the Muslims that say they would willingly disown a family member for becoming an apostate/non-believer" does not include the term "all Muslims" so I'm singling out people based on behavior, which I think is totally fair given the fact I've witnessed the, quite frankly, disastrous result of a second generation Muslim growing up with traditional parents. I have witnessed heartache you would not believe. It is terrifying that these people think "my child is going to Hell because she/he is not Muslim anymore so I'm going to throw them out of my life." That. Happens. I've. Seen. It.

I don't understand why this gets interpreted as racist. I am genuinely mystified by you. I think you want to do good and shockingly during this discussion I have adopted a new stance on you. I think you actually do want to live in a world where we are more aware of racism so we can truly make it a better place. I honestly did dismiss you before because a lot of SJWs don't care about racism, they just want to release the rage they have inside and they want a group who will approve of that. I truly believe this is happening. Addiction to anger is growing, both public and over the internet. Addiction to hating people and canceling them and destroying them based on nothing other than immediate blame and assumptions.

I will agree to try to not put words in your mouth anymore, but I expect you to do the same and not assume that I believe everything I do because I'm a big bad racist. That has been a ludicrous accusation from the start and it isn't anything close to a rational argument. It has become a very common thing to parrot in this day and age where it has become the default on how to dismiss someone, especially conservatives.

When I was being sarcastic to you, it felt as though I wanted to just really get through to you that this is how it comes across to me. You have never before even admitted that there is bigotry in the Muslim community. That viscerally bothers me because I think white leftists are fetishizing minorities as being incapable of sin. It's creepy, to be honest with you. You may not agree with the way I say things but I don't say them because I'm a Nazi or whatever SJWs want to shout at the drop of a hat. When I get those accusations, I don't normally like to argue with anyone to any great length, but since I'm here and we both want to trash SolRo for his narcissism and hypocrisy, why not.

Also, I want to point out to you that you assumed I didn't have Muslim friends. I have never given any indication that I wasn't friends with Muslims. I have known more than a few and was on good terms with them. Not good friends, but acquaintances and on pleasant terms with them.

But then you have things like the way their view women. Yeah, you should hit your wife is she steps out of line. That's common. I think maybe you have Muslim friends who are not representative of the majority of Muslims. I think one of the biggest differences between Islam and other religions is they have a problem with uneducated people who have not had any other viewpoints available to them. Most Muslims do NOT grow up in a world where tolerance is taught to them. Or, their interpretation of what tolerance is only extends to people that believe what they believe.

You know what sets me off? When I hear a Muslim man beat up his girlfriend and she won't go to the cops because no one would support her. She can't go back to her mother because mom thinks that is what you fucking get for talking back to your man. And yeah I get that spousal abuse happens across the board. But there is a special cultural attachment to mores and beliefs regarding women, genital mutilation for many African cultures, beliefs against non Muslims...the list goes on. The majority of the Muslim community is very different from other communities. The values that they espouse are some of the most hateful on the planet. What I don't think that you realize is that your posh friends in London, or wherever you are, are not representative of the vast numbers of Muslims in countries like Pakistan or Somalia where 90% of them support stoning as a form of punishing adultery or turning Christian or being gay. The sheer numbers are what I am trying to impress onto you, and I want to you actually be concerned about those numbers because the left very generally isn't. They try to deny what polls say regarding Muslim beliefs have any impact on our society. The Pulse shooting was an obvious example. Barack really did not want to equate the shooting as being tied with Islam, even when the shooter said ISIS was his inspiration.

I think, and I'm not wrong, that the problems that come with people that are born in Muslim countries are that the majority of them BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION are not like your friends. They are like the guy who watched his own daughter get maimed horribly and laughed about it. They are like the guy who said gay people should not choose to do disgusting things like have sex, and they get what's coming to them if they do those things. They are like the woman that says all women should wear a headscarf or suffer punishment over the law. Those people are coming to the UK and the US, too. Yes, there are intellectuals in the Muslim community that want a more moderate society. But I've got news for you. Most Muslims have a problem with people calling themselves Muslim that don't go for all the rest of the crazy shit that Islam entails. And that's a whole other fucked up thing, where Muslims fight about who is really a Muslim. Christians will pull the same shit, I know.

Try and understand. I see these people coming into the US with their beliefs as a threat to everything I believe in. I do not want their beliefs to proliferate. It's not because I hate them. I hate the stupid fucking things they think God wants them to do. Which is namely to make every other belief system totally illegal.

I realize you WANT to believe that these things are not common to Muslims and that you want me to go by the individual but at a certain point you have to ask yourself, how many of these people coming to our country constitutes a threat? How many of them cheer on suicide bombs and tacitly support terrorism/Hamas/Al Qaeda/Hezbollah? It's not a threat because I think all of them are going to blow something up. It's a threat because they don't advertise who they hate and why. They simply believe that hatred is justified and nothing you can say to them will usually convince them otherwise. I can't say this enough. You are correct when you say judge by the individual BUT PERCENTAGES ARE IMPORTANT. When you look at the overwhelming percentages of Muslims that believe these things, it isn't just coming up with some kind of invalid paranoia they might be trouble. It's based on poll after poll after poll about what they support. I do NOT want sharia courts in the US. I don't want the Orthodox Jews to have a court, either. I do NOT want tons of people coming to the US that hate gays, apostates, Jews, and atheists. I would think that you would have some logical self interest here.

You say Not All Muslims. Fine. I contend that not all Muslims believe in hating those groups (again going with the logic that they self identify as Muslim but according to the legal religious code definition they aren't) But be honest, man. MOST OF THEM DO. And the left is ignoring this at their own risk.

Is the answer to never call Muslims out? Why should they always get a pass? Answer me that.

ITT I learned who doesn't know what "intersectionalism" means.

I also learned that Brazilians are a minority in Brazil.

added bonus: I get to disagree with SolRo

Believe me or not, I really find this a painful and ugly exercise. I’ve liked SolRo over the years and want him to be better than this. Originally I thought this page would go very differently, I thought SolRo would say “of COURSE anti-Semitism is wrong, it’s just that Israel etc etc” — even Corbyn managed that much — and then we’d find a middle ground since I too think the Israeli government is awful.

But no. Instead SolRo is far worse than I imagined. And that doesn’t make me feel anything but nauseated and sad.

Why would you expect anyone but a spineless moron to instantly bow down to your false and idiotic accusations?

You pedophile

Not really an analogy. I completely agree that child abuse is vile and wrong. Will you agree that anti-Semitism is wrong?

So you’re a self-loathing pedophile, got it

Yeah, I think I made my point here. Until SolRo is ready to acknowledge that anti-Semitism is wrong I’m really not interested in anything else he has to say.

I suspect that one of the very first things that would happen if this site gets bought by a member is that SolRo gets shit-canned without warning.

SolRo, you can never look down on anyone here again. All you need to say is that anti Semitism is wrong. You can't do it.

And that is disgusting.

Hey hazel looks like brandow thinks exactly the same way you do. What’s it like thinking the same way as a racist?

You’re the one in a position to know. And that’s very sad.

I do still like you, SolRo. I think deep down you’re a good person who cares. But you’ve convinced yourself that hatred is a good way to show you care, and that hate has poisoned you.

Until today I hadn’t realised how much.

Yeah I’m a Sith Lord now, you dumb British twat

(Sorry, my reply went below.)

You're playing a pissy game where you're putting the burden on him of proving he's not anti-Semitic. That's a bullshit game and I'd be insulted if you tried to pull that on me, same as anyone else.

And as far as I know, SolRo has never complained about "Jews" controlling world governments like some sort of common Ilhan Omar. he has complained about Soros specifically, for acts that Soros specifically has committed. SolRo and I have different opinions about Soros and have sparred over him, but never once have I seen any signs that SolRo feels that Soros is just acting all "Jewy".

Would also add that SolRo has long been one of the biggest advocates of punching Nazis (quoth the SolRo: "Punch Nazi faces; punch them until they stop being Nazis or they stop being faces"), which does not in and of itself eliminate the possibility of being anti-Semitic, but it sure would make for a peculiar fit.

But I'll ask SolRo the question: hey SolRo, do you find it insulting that Hazelnut is placing the burden on you to demonstrate you're an anti-Semite, and that's the reason you're not playing along?

You can be as pissy as YOU want, but I promise you my concern about SolRo’s antisemitism and my interest in his answer are genuine.

You can't have it both ways. If SolRo is as alarmingly anti-Semitic as you are arguing, then a simple denial on his part should count for nothing. But that's not a problem for you, because you know he's not the anti-Semite you claim he is.

So, I'm calling bullshit. Especially since you're the guy who's saying this downthread ...

"It infuriates me when supporters of the Israeli government throw out that ‘antisemitic’ label to shut down criticism."

... yet you're clutching your pearls over SolRo saying "Zionists have redefined anti-semitism to cover anything or anyone not goose-stepping to israel's apartheid policy". Except for purely cosmetic differences, it's exactly the same sentiment.

Yeah, I also noticed that SolRo didn’t have the courage to answer your question.

Nice meme distraction there, “pearl clutching”. Really deligitimised the video there.

You never denied sucking dog cocks like I said you do.

Therefore hazel sucks copious dog cocks, he admits
It with his silence.

Okay, if that's how you want it:

I heartily, thoroughly, and unreservedly deny and condemn sucking dog dicks.

Now, are you ready to disavow antisemitism? Are are you still playing your cute little Trumpian "am I or ain't I?" game?

Coward.

The thing is, when I started this thread I genuinely didn't think SolRo was antisemitic. That's why I started it. My whole point, my WHOLE point, as you can read at the top, was to say hey, we have our political differences, but we can at least agree that anti-semitism is wrong, can't we?

SolRo chose himself where to take the rest of the conversation.

With that said, yeah a lot of what he has said either comes close to the line or in my opinion crosses it:

- "Zionists have redefined anti-semitism to cover anything or anyone not goose-stepping to israel's apartheid policy"
- "Ironically [George Soros] inadvertently (or intentionally?) helped a bunch of neo-nazis take over Ukraine" ["or intentionally?" takes us right into Steve Bannon conspiracy land]
- "We have a British idiot that fell hard for the ‘leftists hate Jews’ diatribe right wing media over there used so effectively to bring down the labor party" (denial that racism exists is itself racist, and the Labour party itself has apologised for anti-semitism)
- "They've more than proven they cannot be trusted with the land."
- "That whole 'they're already there' thing is a) bullshit and b) would be ok if Israelis could restrain themselves from killing thousands of people for not being Jewish." (Note how he's not attacking Israel the state or its government here, he specifically repeatedly and viciously attacks ISRAELIS. He does this all the time. It's the difference between hating, say, the government of China versus hating the Chinese.)
- "Ship them off to some island in the middle of the pacific, because they cant seem to get along with anyone but themselves." (!!!)
- "And you always conveniently ignore that Israelis teach and train their kids to hate muslims" (compare to Brawndo's "You have proven you will look the other way when it comes to Jew bashing if it's coming from the Muslim community" -- isn't it funny how racists echo each other's language?)

But I freely concede that you can make excuses for any of these. I _want_ to make excuses. I would seriously love to "lose" this argument as a result of SolRo showing a shred of human decency. I'm still waiting, unfortunately.

Yep. You’re a completely brainwashed idiot that fell hard for right-wing talking points.

Everyone except you is antisemitic and you are the precious snowflake that will save the Jewish people from the omnipresent leftist Nazi horde.

Call me crazy, when someone says "Ship them off to some island in the middle of the pacific", yeah that sounds pretty fucking prejudiced to me.

You know what’s pretty fucking prejudiced? Keeping millions of people in an open air internment camp while confiscating their land and trying to ethnically cleanse them out of the region, killing them at whim with no repercussions.

But I’m sorry I use coarse language about that situation, I’m just as bad as the snipers shooting kids, protesters, journalists and medics.


You piece of human garbage.

Abhorring the actions of the Israeli government, even opposing the Israeli state, is one thing. Hating the Israeli people, especially when you specifically hate Israeli Jews, is another matter entirely, and one you should be utterly ashamed of.

I'm not far right wing, I just repeat and promote all their talking points and intents!

You are a truly a piece of shit, Hazel.

I'm gonna go with a big Isreal≠All Jewish People on this on. I don't know if you think that you're arguing in good faith, but SolRo hasn't said or done ANYTHING antisemetic.

Let me be just a little more specific: Israel sucks, Saudi Arabia sucks, Iran sucks, MOST of the Ethnostates that came out of Sykes-Picot suck. They were designed to be in constant conflict with each other. England, France and the US effectively Balkanized the region. I don't know how you undo that, but pretending Jews=Israel doesn't help.

Of course Israel != All Jewish people. Duh. I'm a frequent critic of the Israeli government myself. I hate what is going on in Palestine. I support an independent Palestinian state.

Hating the Israeli PEOPLE is still hatred. Hating Israeli Jews in particular is still anti-Semitic. Yes including frothing SolRo-style "Ship them off to some island in the middle of the pacific, because they cant seem to get along with anyone but themselves" hatred. If you close your eyes to that, then shame on you too.

See the working definition of anti-Semitism here: https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/working-definition-antisemiti sm It takes pains to emphasize "criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic". It still calls out "Calling for, aiding, JUSTIFYING [emphasis mine] the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology"

Okay where did SolRo say he hates all Isrealis.

“Ship them off” and “they teach their kids to hate” isn’t enough for you? I suspect it would be if it were any other ethnic group.

I expect then you’ll excuse his “Heil Zion!“ line too, along with “Israelis are as bad as Hamas“ (not Israel mind you, Israelis, he’s repeatedly crystal clear on that).

And then too there was his line about “those totally not fascist Israelis”, but I guess when he said ‘Israelis’ he didn’t mean ‘Israelis’, right?

Then there was his complaining about “American politicians wanting to keep radical jewish American voters happy”, but hey, at least he said “radical” so he has an out. Just like when Trump says “radical Muslims.”

Well, there it is. Go on making excuses for him. I certainly did for years (especially back in 2015 / 16 when the people he argued with like Baleen and EvilHomer were worse), but I can’t any more. I’m sick of it.

Of course SolRo could clear the air in a second by saying “I don’t hate Israelis.” I would then be in the wrong and I’d apologise. But he both know he won’t.

Replace "Isreali" with "1930's German citizen" in your head. His opinions are fine. They're not antisemetic. Palastinians are Semites, too. What you are doing is concern trolling.

What a useful phrase, “concern trolling”. When you’re faved with the evidence, when you’re backed into corner, when you know full well you’re defending the indefensible, when that sick feeling of realization is forming in the pit of your stomach, you can dismiss it all by just pretending that no one legitimately cares about anti-Jewish racism, they’re just “concern trolls”.

Let me ask, did you even watch the video? Is Rabbi Goldschmidt a “concern troll”.?

Rabbi Goldschmitt doesn't say anything about SolRo.

Cute.

Your entire fucking argument is "cute." We are free to criticize Isreal, as long as we don't use the word "Isreali," that would be aNtIsEmEtic!

Yes, hating Israeli Jews is much much worse than disagreeing with the Israeli government. If that’s a ‘quibble’ to you then that says a lot about what kind of person you are.

Hi JHM, for what it’s worth I totally agree with what you just said. It infuriates me when supporters of the Israeli government throw out that ‘antisemitic’ label to shut down criticism.

I’m sure you agree with me that, by the same token, just because you hate Israel that doesn’t give you an excuse to stereotype and dehumanise Jews.

Which is what SolRo is doing, in the same terms and same language that Brawndo uses about Muslims.

Here’s a game: can you tell, without knowing the ethnicity involved, which of these is Brawndo and which is SolRo?

“You have proven you will look the other way when it comes to [attacks on X] if it's coming from the [Y]”

“And you always conveniently ignore that [Y] teach and train their kids to hate [X]”

And then when he’s called out on it, does he clarify what he means? Does he even deny it? No! Trumplike, he attacks insults and dodges but still leaves it deliberately ambiguous. Fuck that. That stopped being cute, if it ever was, after 2016.

Backwards!

Brando finds hazel makes a lot of good points.

Because hazel is falling for righting propaganda like the raging idiot he is.

Congratulations SolRo, you think "antisemitism is wrong" is right wing propaganda. You win the 2020 Decent Human Being award. Have you watched the video yet?

At the end of the day, your language about Jews and Brawndo's language about Muslims are literally indistinguishable. You may well be the same person.

Hi JHM, thanks for once again being the reasonable one. I do find these ‘dance’ threads distasteful, and expect to back off on Brawndo except when he goes full Klansman.

I do think you should watch the video. Hating Jews is not some harmless permissible eccentricity, it has consequences.

Another video I’d love for you to watch: the hopper right now a female Jewish MP who talks about the abuse and death threats she received. Sadly it might not make it out of the hopper: SolRo and Nominal downvoted it because it breaks their “antisemitism isn’t real, it’s just a right wing myth” narrative.

No we downvoted it because a raging fagdancer is accusing everyone that raped his asshole raw on the "billionaires are assholes" videos of hating jews.

You're a fagdancer. dancing your faggy dance. because you lost an argument on the internet.

You suck rich people's dogs cocks.

Why don't you go upvote the video where a literal jewish person is accused of being anti-Semitic by idiots like you?

Let me guess, you didn't watch it because it goes against your narrative of "Whoever screams anti-Semite first is winning the argument"

I think SolRo’s words are really speaking for themselves at this point.

Yeah they are. Those words are saying you’re an idiot and will start throwing around false accusations whenever you start losing an argument.


Also you agree with this website’s racist pigshit brawndo, your intellectual peer.

No, those are the words of you boasting of trying to silence Jewish voices.

I would LOVE to “lose the argument” and learn that you don’t really hate Jews. PLEASE show me I’m wrong about you.

Sadly, disgustingly, I seem to be right.