That's not a good strategy, although it's partially right.

Democrats should be willing to go at it alone, but at the same time offer fig leaves to the moderates and pick off victories where they can with the moderate support; maybe no victories come of it, but it doesn't take away from the going at it alone strategy and has the potential to pay off.

De-radicalizing the right isn't a single election year effort; it's going to take 15-20 years. Forcing further polarization won't help the cause.

Get ready for Bernieism 3.0.

4 years of the sort of total, unyielding, self destructive lack of coalition building that conservatives are more than capable of, forcing compromise from "spineless" Democrats.

Honestly having trouble understanding what you're trying to say or how it relates to reality Nominal, but Biden's coalition was based on white college educated suburbanites who voted down ballot republicans while hemorrhaging support from non-whites and all sectors of the working class in historic numbers. This in an election against a uniquely unpopular president in the middle of an unprecedented natural disaster and economic downturn.

This coalition has not delivered results sufficient to pass any legislation or reform the judiciary, is not sustainable, and will likely result in loss of congress in 2 years.

https://www.ft.com/content/31a0273a-d745-4ed5-b497-c7c61c26e32 d
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/joe-bide n-voters-republicans-trump

Oh shut up Crackersmack. You’ve spent the whole year shilling for Trump and you FAILED. No one believes your bullshit—not even you.

Simon: I'm certainly not opposed to working with Republicans where it is possible, and it may be on more local issues, but the idea that even a single R Senator will vote for, say, a sufficiently moderate immigration reform law is just delusional.

If you want to de-radicalize people, doubling down on divisive culture war stuff while moderating and not talking about any policies that might help people is not going to achieve much. If we want votes in rural areas, moderating on gun control and centering aggressive ag reform that benefits small farmers at the expense of big agribusiness would be a good start.

Right wingers were already in their own reality when they watched Fox News. Now they're abandoning Fox and going to OANN, Newsmax, the Epoch Times, and Parler. They are becoming more isolated and radicalized than ever. Trump was only the beginning.

>>>Anyone who talks in any way about working with the GOP or finding common ground or restoring civility is a delusional idiot who should be ignored immediately and completely on all issues.

Go fuck yourself, ashhole.

And I want you to know that I wouldn't be telling you to go fuck yourself if you hadn't used the words "in any way". Everything else is a reasonable, valid opinion. You're basically trying to impose a straightjacket. and I don't see why that's necessary. Obviously, there's no compromise possible.when the GOP tries to engage in wholesale fraud, while accusing the Democrats of doing the same thing. There needs no shrill, bitter ghost from the grave to tell us this.

What no one seems to have noticed is that Trump, who cares about no one but himself, is now turning the GOP against itself, big time. The empty space formerly occupied by Lindsey Graham tries to get the Republican Attorney General of Georgia to nullify lawful votes, which is a crime, and the Georgia AG goes straight to the press. I've never seen anything like that before. They're eating their own.

Let's just see how this plays put.

>>>https://www.ft.com/content/31a0273a-d745-4ed5-b497-c7c61c26 e32 d
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/joe-bide n-voters-republicans-trump

tinyurl.com

JHM takes neutral political observations personally and is a huge angry vicious baby about it part one million.

the implosive GOP revolution is 'n has been the main sideshow of the US's slide into neo-nazi green room shit, or should i say the means thereof. I don't usually drink rum.

Oh hey remember how all year Ashtarsmack was predicting a huge Biden loss to Trump, was outright gloating over it?

Yeah. :–)

>>Anyone who talks in any way about working with the GOP or finding common ground or restoring civility is a delusional idiot who should be ignored immediately and completely on all issues.

Yeah, obviously, I took this as a personal attack on me. That makes so much sense.

Fuck you, Ashtar. Part one million and one.

Oh, and

>>>Anyone who talks in any way about working with the GOP or finding common ground or restoring civility is a delusional idiot who should be ignored immediately and completely on all issues.

is, of course, a "neutral political observation".

One million two.

The same "end of Republicans" prediction was made at the beginning of Obama's tenure, the rise of the tea party, and the 2016 election. It ain't gonna happen, and it's going to survive shifting demographics as we saw in Florida.

The only hope is finally bury the retarded hip to not vote nonsense. Regressives (who don't vote) still to this day believe Democrats "give in" to Republicans out of a lack of conviction rather than simple reality of the numbers. Numbers that wouldn't be an issue if they voted.

The same "end of Republicans" prediction was made at the beginning of Obama's tenure, the rise of the tea party, and the 2016 election. It ain't gonna happen, and it's going to survive shifting demographics as we saw in Florida.

Are you talking to Me? I don't know who else you could be talking to, but I said "let's see how it plays out", which is, by definition, not a prediction.

The issue we're discussing here is "no one who ever proposes compromise or civility with Republicans for any reason can ever be taken seriously, ever again. ", not that we don't have to vote anymore.

The anti-immigrant, anti-democracy, authoritarian shift of the GOP since Obama is, in my opinion, proof that the GOP knows damn well that the demographic trends don't favor it, and they're desperate to hold onto power, but that's the long game.

And you're right. Voter turnout is the only real answer... but the current situation is unprecedented, and precedents don't apply. There is no "last time a sitting president sought to simply disregard an election. "

JHM: *angry baby noises*

Hey do you remember when you got on the manboobz/WHTM comments community a while back and then got called out on being problematic in some way (I forget, maybe being ableist for calling someone crazy?) and then instead of being like ok my bad you had a big weird meltdown? I used to hang out there and it was painful to watch.

Not really sure why I'm bringing that up. I guess maybe have you tried *not* having the emotional maturity of a middle schooler? Do you just enjoy the drama, or what?

There was record turn out this last election and there was no blue wave. Demographic groups that the democrats have been taking for granted supported Trump in historically high numbers.

Scolding people for not doing their moral duty and voting for people who offer them nothing is a psychological coping mechanism, not a strategy for building political power.

Fuck you one million and three.

>>>Scolding people for not doing their moral duty and voting for people who offer them nothing is a psychological coping mechanism, not a strategy for building political power.

Could someone please point me to where ashtar has ever done anything other than scold people? You scolded me for scolding you, and then you scolded me for how I voted. You started this thread, Dude, with a giant scold. I called you out for it, and here we are.

I voted to stop Trump, and I honestly can't imagine how anyone with an IQ over 50 who has been awake at any time over the past ten days doesn't understand why that is important. This was the only chance we would ever have to stop Trump... and we did it. What I got for vote was to be a part of that.

And holy HIGH JUMPING JESUS CHRIST, are you really trying to convince me that it was a bad idea? Good luck with that!

>>>Hey do you remember when you got on the manboobz/WHTM comments community a while back and then got called out on being problematic in some way (I forget, maybe being ableist for calling someone crazy?) and then instead of being like ok my bad you had a big weird meltdown? I used to hang out there and it was painful to watch.

Has ashtar's response to ANYTHING ever been "ok my bad'

What I remember from that is those assholes were going through my social media accounts, looking for things to attack me on. It was the textbook definition of bullying, and it made me angry. There was a period when I was shocked that feminists could also be bullies. I'll admit that I was naive, and nothing that has ever been done to me is comparable to how women are treated routinely. Nevertheless, fuck those pricks.

>>>I used to hang out there

OF COURSE you did.

Crackersmack’s reaction has never been anything but more disingenuous trolling, which is why it better to just not engage with him.

Its not healthy to allow yourself to be fed by the trolls... but sometimes, it's delicious!

"If you want to de-radicalize people, doubling down on divisive culture war stuff while moderating and not talking about any policies that might help people is not going to achieve much."

Ashtar, so I wasn't advocating doubling down on divisive culture war stuff, so kindly don't saddle me with that position to defend.

Singing Kumbaya ain't going to cut it and will be perceived as weak by the radicalized right, and therefore not worth of respect. Being firm in one's position, but respectful is probably a better strategy, generally speaking.

More specifically, I think (and you probably agree) that a big push on economic issues would pay dividends: union support, infrastructure, stimulus to working class, healthcare, and making the federal government buy fully American made equipment like fleet vehicles etc (this is actually one of Biden's plans which he can do without Congress). The idea is to basically dare the Senate to obstruct the other stuff and hammer them with it until midterms. All the while telling the AOC side of the party to take a hike.

To finish my thought: The above should help improve the Democratic ethos to some degree.

Then the DOJ needs to breakup Facebook and other platforms used radicalize people politically. It should be a full court press on these platforms and should probably include a National Security directive.

At the same time, Biden will need to (with the help of allies) increase or dial up the electronic warfare against Iran, China, NK, and Russia. The cost of doing business will need to go up 100 fold for these actors. That should reduce some of the disinfo impact they're having in the meantime, while the DOJ et al go after platforms.

"Ashtar, so I wasn't advocating doubling down on divisive culture war stuff, so kindly don't saddle me with that position to defend."

This seems to be the standard Democratic position. Like, isn't it weird that an assault rifle ban (not going to happen, would not save lives, pisses a lot of people off) is just standard Democratic orthodoxy, but support for economic programs that would actually help people is something we need to moderate?

"At the same time, Biden will need to (with the help of allies) increase or dial up the electronic warfare against Iran, China, NK, and Russia. The cost of doing business will need to go up 100 fold for these actors. That should reduce some of the disinfo impact they're having in the meantime, while the DOJ et al go after platforms."

But how am I to feed my family without lib ownership rubles from Russian governments?

If it's a "standard dem position" you're strawmanning me, arguing against a position that I don't hold. So say what you will, but it's not speaking to me on that particular point.

I'm not following how the snark of the own libs comment is supposed to go.

Very low class move, crashtar.

Jesus fuck John, what is wrong with you? I started this thread making a point about the impossibility of working with the GOP. Which, if you can recall literally any event in American national politics since Newt Gingrich, you'd have to be a huge fucking moron to deny. You responded by telling me to go fuck myself, and then threw a big tantrum through this whole thread rather than make any kind of coherent point. Because that's kind of your whole thing: you've got an ego as fragile as an overripe avocado and you just throw an embarrassing histrionic fit as soon as anyone disagrees with you or pokes holes in your need to have the president be your Ideal Dad. I know it's sort of late in the game for you to make major personality revisions, but that doesn't seem like a super fun way to go through life.

Simon: So, like, we don't disagree about that? That's neat. I wasn't trying to argue with you, but have a discussion.

Suuuuuure you were, Crackersmack

>>>Jesus fuck John, what is wrong with you? I started this thread making a point about the impossibility of working with the GOP. Which, if you can recall literally any event in American national politics since Newt Gingrich, you'd have to be a huge fucking moron to deny.

Maybe that's what you think you said, but I can read English, and a close look at the words you wrote tells a different story.

>>>Anyone who talks in any way about working with the GOP or finding common ground or restoring civility is a delusional idiot who should be ignored immediately and completely on all issues.

You're not talking about Republicans. This is not a sentence about Republicans. This is a sentence about whose opinion should count, based on what we should be permitted to think and say. I wouldn't take it so literally from almost anyone else, but this is just about how arrogant you've always been.

I also agree about assault rifles. Total loser issue for the Democrats. I would take the GOP at its word and push for mental health care next time there's a big high-profile shooting.

Fuck you one million and four.

>>You're not talking about Republicans. This is not a sentence about Republicans. This is a sentence about whose opinion should count, based on what we should be permitted to think and say. I wouldn't take it so literally from almost anyone else, but this is just about how arrogant you've always been.

Right, so the point you're making is that even though it's obvious that the Republicans will not work with Biden, and are right now already declaring his presidency illegitimate, it's somehow too much of a leap to say we should discount the opinions of people who don't understand this very obvious and fundamental fact about American politics and think that the Republicans will work with Biden? Is it too mean and arrogant to say we should exclude flat earthers from NASA?

I can't even imagine how insufferable ashtar has to be in real life

take a big swig o' piss and calm the fuck down hotshot

Right, I make a pretty obvious political observation and get told to go fuck myself by someone I wasn't even talking to, and this leads to being get told I'm insufferable by the guy that keeps talking about piss.

Biden really needs to distance himself from his toxic online supporters or I just won't feel comfortable voting for him in 2024.

Hey, how does it make you feel that Biden appointed a Dupont consultant who helped them avoid EPA regulations on one of their toxic chemicals to his EPA transition board and one of the most fossil fuel funded democratic congress members, who broke with Democrats several times to vote with Republicans on environmental issues, to a White House post in charge of public engagement on climate change issues?

Ready to go back to brunch now that the responsible adults are back in charge yet?

The Republicans response has not been uniform. Nationally, most have them have just been hiding.

Trump is not going to be president, and without the presidency, I think its an open question how much influence he's going to have as a one termer. They love Trump because "he never loses", and because he drives Democrats crazy. Well, he's now lost, and without the office, I personally plan on being a lot less obsessed with Trump.

There's talk of putting Trump on Newsmax, but I think he's going to have trouble expressing ideas of more than 280 characters. Remember Sarah Palin on Fox News? Me neither.

None of this is meant as a prediction, but some Republicans may be willing to throw off Trumpism, and some Democrats may be in a position to elevate those Republicans. Lets just see how this plays out.

>>>>Hey, how does it make you feel that Biden appointed a Dupont consultant who helped them avoid EPA regulations on one of their toxic chemicals to his EPA transition board and one of the most fossil fuel funded democratic congress members, who broke with Democrats several times to vote with Republicans on environmental issues, to a White House post in charge of public engagement on climate change issues?

I've seen that decision criticized, largely by Biden allies, and I'm fine with that.

I’m sure California is intact deep red if you don’t count all the illegal votes of minorities and liberal whites.

Republican election board officials trying not to count 75% black Detroit today.

If you're trying to disenfranchise black people so whites can keep the political majority, that's what a white supremacist is. Thats the definition.

The really red part of California is the north eastern corner. They call it not California, but Jefferson.