I don't understand this situation we're in where everyone watches porn and needs porn but the people who produce it (especially those who have the actual sex) are treated like shit. It's like eating a meal and then saying to the cook: "Thanks for that but you're a fucking worthless human being."

You really don't understand that? Really?

The solution is nationalized pornography.

I imagine it's complex. For example, there are probably people who would never judge or disrespect a porn actor who would not want to be known for hiring one. And the people who are real bastards are probably a minority, but that's enough to make life difficult.

I guess I understand it, but it still sucks.

"Sock any of it away?" Do you think porn stars are millionaires or something?

It pays well compared to other low skilled work like toasting sandwiches at Subway or whatever, but it's sure as hell not going to give you enough to retire on. Especially since most porn actresses last maybe two years before they get pushed out of the business by newer performers.

I can't think of any other legal profession that leaves you with such a stigma for the rest of your life. If a woman robs people blind for 30 years as a banker, it's "Hey, nice car, welcome to the neighborhood." If a woman fucks some consenting adults in front of a camera for two years, it's "STAY AWAY FROM MY KIDS YOU SICK WHORE."

This just reminds me of a few months ago when I was walking by the local college and some drunken bro was talking about how he got a blowjob, making sure to pause every other word to call the girl a cheap slut or a stupid whore. And I'm thinking, "Dude, she sucked your dick. That was a nice thing she did for you. Did you not like having your dick sucked? Because you probably could have stopped her."

When did we as a society decide to hate anyone who helps bring us to orgasm?

I think part of it is religious, with old ideas about the purity of women and such. Any woman who has sex with someone besides her husband is impure/stupid/whore/etc. And by degrading them after the fact, you make yourself look so much better. Even if you were the one she was having sex with so long as you make it clear she's the slut, you're golden.

It also could explain why so many former porn stars find Jesus so quickly. They want to not be seen in such a degrading light so they jump on the fundamentalist bandwagon as a way of trying to present a new image.

It's not much different than the music industry (at lest the mid to late 20th century music industry).

Except of course that most of the English speaking world is so confused about sexuality that it's even easier to exploit someone who performs in porn than it used to be to exploit, say, a poor black guy with a really good voice 50 years ago.

I guess what I'm saying is all show business is full of vicious and exploitative elements and can ruin your life if you aren't careful but in the case of porn, those problems are made even worse because the rest of society has such a weird relationship with it.

"The solution is nationalized pornography." cannot have enough stars.

I'm having trouble with a cavernous vagina being a redeeming personality quality.

"It's like eating a meal and then saying to the cook: "Thanks for that but you're a fucking worthless human being.""

You've obviously never worked in a country club.

>>This just reminds me of a few months ago when I was walking by the local college and some drunken bro was talking about how he got a blowjob, making sure to pause every other word to call the girl a cheap slut or a stupid whore. And I'm thinking, "Dude, she sucked your dick. That was a nice thing she did for you. Did you not like having your dick sucked? Because you probably could have stopped her."

What made her a cheap whore wasn't that she sucked someone's dick, or even that she sucked the dick of someone she didn't know very well. It was that she sucked THIS guy's disrespecting dick. You have to think that there's something wrong with someone who will will have sex with someone who disregards her like this.

I don't want to judge her for that. I'd like to get her some therapy, but there is such a thing as people who don't respect themselves seeking validation through sex, and it's not a good thing. A lot of them are victims of sexual abuse. A lot of them wind up in the porn industry. And a lot of them continue to be judged and disrespected years later. For some of these people, in the absense of a decent mental health system, accepting Jesus is a good move.

"Blah blah blah... It was that she sucked THIS guy's disrespecting dick."

So basically if you have a drunken hookup with someone who doesn't respect you (keep in mind it's pretty fucking hard to make that estimation if you're wasted) you need therapy and counseling and whatever other shit?

Attitude towards people who do porn (or actually just like to have a lot of sex with other people) is either that they are sinful harlots who should be stoned to death or people who need therapy and treatment because they replace sex with validation, love or [insert human character trait here]. How fucking hard is it to accept that some people like to fuck, some people have fucked on camera but that may not be indicative of their character, judgement or moral fiber?

Agree with Kieran27 but I will say the problem is about 98% the fault of religion.

All the way from sailing on ships away from Old Mother England and on into 2013 America, we've carried with us an ancient Judeo-Christian virus. Boys can play, the virus has whispered in our ears over the centuries, but if women and girls even think about sex beyond wanting to procreate, they are sluts, harlots, whores, etc. We tell the boys to go out and have fun, enjoy their hunt for vagina. We do little to discourage them. We then turn around and tell the girls they're under lock and fucking key and sure as shit better come back from that movie with their hymens intact or the whole high school will know what filthy little trollops they are. It's a bullshit game of shaming and confusion that has led to nothing but feelings of shame, psychological scars, regret and self-loathing in girls, not to mention rape and victim blaming.

Even now in 2013, when significant numbers of our population are finally starting to wake up and realize that the Bible is a book of lies and the ancient sky bully isn't real, some of those same people STILL carry with them the idea that women should be shamed for enjoying sex. We've been deluded and poisoned for so long that even free the thinkers need time to get over it.

>>So basically if you have a drunken hookup with someone who doesn't respect you (keep in mind it's pretty fucking hard to make that estimation if you're wasted) you need therapy and counseling and whatever other shit?

Assuming that it happens more than once, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Jesus Christ, are you even reading the stuff that you're posting? " keep in mind it's pretty fucking hard to make that estimation if you're wasted" Jesus H. FUCK! "Being wasted" is the worst rationalization ever for self-destructive behavior.

The douche who talks loudly in public about his recent blowjob could also use some therapy. It's just another side of the same coin.

I didn't say that everyone who is in porn is fucked in the head, but you better believe that some people are. The puritanical crap is often a big reason why that's so, and the slut-shaming behavior is definitely fucked in the head.

I'm not qualified to judge individual cases, but I'll say it again: There is such a thing as people who don't respect themselves seeking validation through sex, and it's not a good thing.

Note that I didn't say that it always applies. BUT THERE IS SUCH A THING.

A lifetime of masturbating has made JHMF a self-appointed expert on the subject, you see.

I used to think that religion was the problem, but I now believe that it's a primitive, outdated, simplistic and subverted response to the problem, and therefore, it's usually part of the problem.

The problem in this case being that many people (not all people, but many people, probably most people) need boundaries. They need intimacy, and they need sex, and they need a way to integrate those needs. Religion did that for most people for a long time, but now we may need something better. Getting rid of religion will make room for that, but it won't solve the problem.

No, paranex, a lifetime of masturbating is where I learned about porn. I learned about intimacy issues from fucking.

You can mock me, paranex, but that's not an argument.

>>I'll say it again: There is such a thing as people who don't respect themselves seeking validation through sex, and it's not a good thing.

>>Note that I didn't say that it always applies. BUT THERE IS SUCH A THING.

An argument would be if you said that there is no such thing. Are you saying that? Or are you NOT saying that?

Believe me, we're all aware of your issues.

Still, some college girl hooking up doesn't make her a "cheap whore." The notion that she has intimacy/self-esteem issues (that require therapy, no less) because some guy disrespected her after the fact is ludicrous. You can never know how someone will treat you down the road, even if you've been married to them for decades.

That was always a hypothetical, and I should have said so right away, but when i said that I'm not qualified to judge individual cases, that's what I meant.

Yes, it's true. I really don't have any intimate knowledge about the girl who sucked the cock of the guy who was overheard by the person whose post I read on the internet.

My larger point is that if you come at this issue with your culture warrior assumptions, whether from the left or the right, the reality is bigger and more complex than that. There are people in porn who are fucked in the head, and people who are strong and well-adjusted.

>>How fucking hard is it to accept that some people like to fuck, some people have fucked on camera but that may not be indicative of their character, judgement or moral fiber?

Yes, and

>>I'll say it again: There is such a thing as people who don't respect themselves seeking validation through sex, and it's not a good thing.

>>Note that I didn't say that it always applies. BUT THERE IS SUCH A THING.


Both realities exist. Right next to each other.

Now that I've seen the movie, it really is more complex than you'd think. While "society" condemns ex-pornstars, some report receiving acceptance and support from "the christian community" Some are very cool and businesslike about the whole thing. Asia Carrera is in Mensa. John Leslie is a handsome old man, but he's an old man.

Nina Hartley is great. I heard an interview with Nina Hartley on eYada radio (anyone remember?) back in my early days of internet, and she's incredibly intelligent.

It's a good documentary. A lot of rich surprises.

The whole thing is also on Netflix.

It's not bad, although it focuses on too many former stars and as a result doesn't really get too deep in any one person's individual story.

Thanks for the link, this looks interesting/depressing.

The movie so far seems less depressing than the trailer.

You stole my post!

That was my favorite thing about this.

The twenty minutes I've seen from the actual movie make it seem more complex. (If this were any other site, I'd wait until I'd seen the whole thing to comment.)

Without seeing the whole movie or knowing anyone in the business, a lifetime of masturbating, and watching documentaries, has convinced me that some people go into porn because they're mentally strong enough to handle it, and other people go into porn because they're fucked in the head. Specifically, I'm convinced that some women who go into porn were sexually abused as children.

I think you're going to see a wide disparity of outcomes. You're going to see a lot of religious conversions, suicides, drug overdoses, and sad, messed up endings, and you're going to see some successful entrepreneurs.

It's just a shame that the tragedy to non-tragedy ratio seems to be so disproportionate. It's like for every Jenna Jameson you have eight Shauna Grants.