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Comment count is 16
memedumpster - 2013-11-21

I am actually glad I'm an American instead of living in a real piece of Western civilization, it's not so bad when you have nothing worth losing.

Nominal - 2013-11-21

How does this thing have any legal authority then?

EvilHomer - 2013-11-21

So, what are people's thoughts on WikiLeaks?

Nominal - 2013-11-21

The "Why are you worried if you have nothing to hide?" reasoning mysteriously doesn't apply when asked of authority.

Hooker - 2013-11-21

The best thing on Earth. If for no other reason than for the fact that the people that constantly wail about the constitution and how you should never trust the government nevertheless turn around and call WikiLeaks treasonous because it dares to tell people what their government is doing.

Fuck everyone that has any sort of objection to WikiLeaks.

Old_Zircon - 2013-11-21

Better than Wikipedia.

memedumpster - 2013-11-21

Wikileaks is the only part of the government, other than NASA, that does what it's supposed to and gets good things done. Yes, I consider them part of the government, it's a good replacement for Congress.

Nominal - 2013-11-21

memedumpster I don't think you've fully grasped the scope of government.

Sexy Duck Cop - 2013-11-21

I have mixed feelings on the idea of anonymous leaks in the first place, but I do not fucking trust Wikileaks at all.

The difference between government and anonymous info-dumpers is that one has some semblance of accountability. Our government may suck from angles that baffle professional geometry experts, but at least it has officials we can point to and blame if things go wrong. With organizations like Wikileaks, the only barrier is Julian Assange and whatever he deems appropriate. And yes kids, he has an agenda and ideology too.

And that's a broader problem with the resurgent libertarianism that's sprung up in the wake of the Internet and financial crisis: We lionize THE PEOPLE so much that we forget most of THE PEOPLE are the same people we make fun of on PoETV: Insane lunatics who should be kept very, very far from the keys of power. Gatekeepers are sometimes a good thing. You may not like them, but the alternative can be so, so much worse.

memedumpster - 2013-11-21

Nominal, I really don't. It perplexes me that our Confederate/Federalist hybrid idea of representation has forsaken the entire population in trade for thumbs up asses and cocks in mouths. It was the whole bleating bloody out the ass uproar of anti-Federalism countered by pushing through a Constitution (after conveniently changing the amount of votes required to pass it to favor the Federalists) that got us a House at all, and it immediately turned on us.

EvilHomer - 2013-11-21

I don't want to get too into it, since I have a government job and fuck knows what the bored IT guys might be up to (hi fuckers, I'm on a home network, stop e-stalking me). But I agree with SexyDuckCop, even though we may perhaps arrive at the conclusion from different directions.

I think WikiLeaks is a great idea in theory, but I am worried about it's editorial bias. Julian Assange has admitted to flat out doctoring WikiLeaks material so it suits his own narrative (the notorious Collateral Murder footage springs to mind), and this is a real problem. Something like WikiLeaks can only work as a neutral dumping ground for primary sources; as soon as you start introducing gatekeepers and agendas, however libertarian and well intentioned, it stops being a global tool for truth and empowerment, and becomes a mere weapon wielded by the few.

craptacular - 2013-11-21

But there are commentators and intelligent people to point out when there is an ideology or agenda shaping the information leak. Everyone has an agenda, that's a given. Having the information out there is far better than not. And if this TPP info had been released through "clean" channels, or had undergone official governmental approval before release, it would be severely neutered of impact, if released at all - likely it would be stalled in bureaucracy indefinitely.
So anonymous whistle blowing and dumping of information is a valuable way of staying informed. And if there's an agenda behind it, I'm confident someone intelligent will point that out in due time.

RedRust - 2013-11-21

Too lazy to read the goldmine of information that is on that site.

Syd Midnight - 2013-11-22

I'm glad it's there, although it is drowned in a sea of media irrelevance it is monitored by journalists, so stories at least have a ghost of a chance.

I'm aware that it has an agenda, but its an agenda that a responsible government should be able to survive and even thrive from. I work under the assumption that a government should have a lot of stuff it needs to hide from other governments, but not stuff it would be ashamed for its own citizens to find out. It doesn't happen that way, but it's what we should work towards.

Old_Zircon - 2013-11-22

"most of THE PEOPLE are the same people we make fun of on PoETV: Insane lunatics who should be kept very, very far from the keys of power."

You're talking about congress here, right?

Syd Midnight - 2013-11-24

Yeah, but I'm not under the anarchist illusion that different or no government would be an improvement with magically honest leaders. The Founding Fathers knew that people are lying maniacs, that's why they made so many checks and balances. We need to accept that politicians suck and work with that assumption, because Less Government is the easiest way to put The People in charge, and The People cannot be trusted because they have the morals of a pack of howler monkeys. Make politicians piss in jars and take IQ tests, like you would do with a real howler monkey in a lab setting. Ignore me I'm just venting.

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