Rise above hate, Cena_mark.

Counterpoint: go ahead and hate

The fact you think Treyvon wasnt a lean-chugging hoodlum kind of makes my point for me. Tons of evidence that he's just as worthless as zimmerman, but youll defend him because you dont want to be accused of being racist?

That's one stereotype you should really stop validating - the pussy who is too scared of calling someone a criminal because he happens to be black. Also, the phone call. If you're going to (rightfully) bash zimmerman for his cowardice, at least have the decency to acknowledge the reality that they are both wrong.

Gmork is right. Who knows what kind of pain and suffering Treyvon could have caused with those Skittles in his pocket.

I'm not taking Trayvon's side because I'm afraid of being called a racist. That's something I'm not afraid of because I have of most of Public Enemy's discography and Do the Right Thing is one of my favorite films.
I take Martin's side because he didn't have a gun! I take Martin's side because Zimmerman followed Martin! What crimes did Martin commit? He smoked pot, got suspended from school, took photos of himself flipping the bird. He made Tookie Williams look like a boyscout didn't he?
Why are you calling Martin a criminal anyways? Its not like murdered anyone.

It's more about the fact he was bashing someone's head into the sidewalk over and over and screaming "You gonna die tonight!"

Mentioning the skittles means one of two things - either you don't know what lean is, or you actually believe someone who habitually takes lean isn't prone to more aggressive behavior. Especially someone who touted themselves as an aspiring MMA fighter.

What is it like being able to see all elements of the equation, but be able to selectively ignore the implication of the elements that you dislike?

Gmork needs to watch the MMMystery on the Friendship Express.

I believe theft is a crime, and attempted murder is as well. Self defense however, isn't. As cowardly as what zimmerman did was, he is still protected under self defense.

Here's a question i'd like someone to answer: If treyvon had never been stopped, and continued raining MMA style blows down on zimmerman, would he have stopped himself before zimmerman's head was a red smear on the sidewalk?

The answers you give will be telling.

The long and short of it is, if your gut reaction to the Zimmerman / Martin incident is that Zimmerman's instincts were right, you're running off a belly full of racism, and the fact that a kid died needlessly means you can go one of two ways. Either you can engage in critical self-examination and confront how shittily racist you are, or you can double-down on the racism and actively support Zimmerman while claiming racism's got nothing to do with it.

So the question I have Zimmerman supporters ask themselves is, how would you feel if Zimmerman had instead gone after a white kid named Travis Martin? Same scenario, but he's white. There's no point in them answering me, of course, since they would insist that they would feel Zimmerman was still justified, what else could they say. But if they're asking themselves and keeping the answer to themselves, they just might be candid enough to admit to racism.

It's also pretty telling that you went straight to the racist bit with Cena. Any golliwogs step in front of you lately?

That one was @Gmork

I don't make decisions based on "gut reactions", I look at the evidence. You sure use the term racism a lot, it makes me think you didn't read anything i've said at all.

Who's a zimmerman supporter? Oh, I get it, you think for me to say these things about Treyvon, I must SUPPORT THE OTHER GUY?

You really haven't read anything i've said.

As for your scenario of a white treyvion, if he was an MMA enthusiast who posted as much about how to make homemade drug concoctions as Martin actually did, then i'd have come to the same conclusion.

Seems to me like you're the only one with racism running through your brain at 60mph.

Gmorks horses ass tramp stamp would be three bullets and a watermelon.

In the interest of full disclosure, mine would likely be the holy trinity of a capacitor, resistor and inductor.

I hate horses.

Oscar why do you bother to make such horribly inaccurate (and telling about your personal prejudices) statements about me?

Also, what kind of asshole tattoos or brands a horse? Not necessary in this day and age.

MMA Enthusiast? When did that come out? What does that mean? I know plenty of MMA enthusiasts, they don't fight they just like to watch and discuss them. I'm an MMA enthusiast and I don't think that makes me a dangerous man. Zimmerman had like 75 lbs on the kid. Why are the macho conservatives and gun nuts giving this weenie 0,000 for a shitty painting?
Gdork, what I don't get is how you think I'm some kinda pandering wuss scared of being viewed as racist. Didn't you see some of my old posts from my libertarian days?
And also please knock off the played out "Guy who labels me a racist is the true racist" nonsense. It really doesn't help your cause.
Also watch the MMMystery on the Friendship Express to learn about investigating and MMMystery solving.

GMork, there's damn little we know for a fact. From Zimmerman's phone call, we know that Zimmerman saw a kid and followed him, and exited his vehicle to pursue against the advice of the police dispatcher. From Trayvon's call, we know that Trayvon was being followed and tried to get away. We know there was a fight and Trayvon got shot. Those are the facts at our disposal.

For the rest, you're filling in from Zimmerman's account, and I know what you're thinking, why would Zimmerman lie, what possible incentive might he have? So he came up with a tale that's obvious bullshit -- Trayvon managed to escape from the guy who was following him, but then turned around to attack him (thus making Zimmerman the victim here). And the worst part is, some people are shittily racist enough to believe that bullshit. Can you even imagine how broken a person would have to be to hear that story and say, "yup, that seems like the most likely way things happened"?

I'm not buying into speculation about martin, I am only talking about his personal social media page. So unless you don't believe that page is actually his, everything I'm positing is corroborated by what he himself has said.

All the social media page proves is that Trayvon Martin was an internet tough guy.

Trayvon's social media page is 100% irrelevant. Even if he smoked pot, how does that devalue his existence to the point where his being murdered by a gun-toting lunatic merits nothing more than a shrug of the shoulders?

Actually, I wasn't using zimmerman's account to reach any of these conclusions. Zimmerman is the one who killed a man, obviously anything he says is in the interests of self-preservation.

Sigh. Somehow I feel this devolving into "We're going to believe whatever we say about you, regardless of how many times you specify your beliefs directly."

Come on poetv, where's the rational discussion about irrational subjects?

BORT WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING TO?

We are obviously not even in the same conversation if you think your last post is anything but non-sequitur in relation to mine.

You got me, Gmork. I'm a shameless electroshaman. But really man, you should read what you're writing and try listening to what the rest of us are saying. I could easily have been that boy at his age, and was often harrassed by the police. But they were police, not vigilantes, so nothing worse came of it than some butt hurt and a lasting distrust of authority.

I'll let the experts explain about the tramp stamps, they've got some special name for it that escapes me at the moment.

Le sigh.

Alright folks, you got me.

It has nothing at all to do with the fact that the drug in question (lean) has the tendency to make you overly aggressive, whether you're directly high from it or just have a ton in your system from habitual usage. It changes your brain chemistry even during the days you're not on it. You can compare the effects of lean to bodybuilders who abuse steroids, they have similar effects on mood and behavior.

Nothing at all to do with that, no sir, now excuse me while I build a zimmerman shrine, chug this Haam's and shoot negroes from my front porch.

GMork, you said the following:

"As cowardly as what zimmerman did was, he is still protected under self defense."

No, it's NOT self-defense unless you believe Zimmerman's self-serving account, where Trayvon eluded him and came back (and thus became the aggressor). So I guess you must believe Zimmerman's version.

You also said:

"Here's a question i'd like someone to answer: If treyvon had never been stopped, and continued raining MMA style blows down on zimmerman, would he have stopped himself before zimmerman's head was a red smear on the sidewalk?"

And right here you're not only again buying Zimmerman's version of events ("MMA style blows"), you're also tapping into that racist terror of the primal savage black man who requires only the slightest provocation to revert to a feral inhuman state. Dude, even I was in fights as a kid, and they weren't life-or-death affairs; the biggest casualty was always pride. But then again, I wasn't fighting a proto-simian from darkest Africa so what do I know.

You know, Gmork, all of this could have been avoided if Trayvon and Zimmerman had been Bronies. Instead of fighting, they would have shared those Skittles and talked about their favorite ponies.

That's the real issue here.

So now they're saying Martin was on lean? When that noise come out? I haven't heard of these developments, but then again I'm not Zimmerman fanboy like Gdork.
So anyone who has a cough might be driven to rage by their cough syrup. You'd best be packin' this cold season.

Well, blacks are far more susceptible to being pushed over the edge than whites. It's like how a circus animal can be docile for the most part, but then suddenly snaps -- that's what happened with Trayvon.

Thank God Zimmerman was there to put him down like a rabid dog.

Sorry to burst your bubble, EvilHomer, but most likely that wouldn't have turned out! Remember Pinkie Pie trying to settle the Buffola/Pony dispute with a song and dance number? I can already imagine that scenario, but the only arbitrator would be a whimpering puppy.

Zimmerman and Treyvin look at each other. Each with stern focused gazes. Trayvin speaks "It appears Residential security patrol George Zimmerman and I have reached an agreement." The puppy looks in yearning expectations. "Puppies are for babies."
"Agreed" Zimmerman shoots Trayvin.

PS. I love how Gmork brandishes the air of "condescending concern" in lieu of giving up.

Seriously, Gmork, it's okay to call "freedom fries" by whatever they were called before for what ever reason it was. Just know that we care for you and understand you have limits.

Cena_mark being accused of being a racist for defending Trayvon Martin by bullet polishing anal flaphandle, Gmork. I've walked into an alternate dimension.

You should be smarter than you are acting, baleen. But you're not. You're just throwing incorrect labels at me.

Why do you revel in being wrong AND an asshole?

You don't need zimmerman's account to know the back of his head was bashed in. I'm not using zimmerman's account of things, i'm using the EVIDENCE PRESENTED TO THE PUBLIC, not including either's testimony. If zimmerman was assaulted first, and certainly no evidence that treyvon was struck physically by zimmerman exists, then why are youdefending treyvon? He decided to get physical. Do you actually think zimmerman would have came out with fists flying when we already know he's a coward who only solves problems with bullets?

By the way baleen, you're hilariously wrong with eveything you've ever said about me. I don't even own a gun. I'm closer to you and your beliefs minus your ignorant position on gun ownership than you will ever admit.

99% of my politics align with yours, but not when it comes to firearms, which of course is unrelated to this video but i'm sure you'll shoehorn it in there, because you can't bring up any real points against me.

So far there's been a lot of putting words in my mouth, and not one of you has actually gotten those words right yet.

BOTTOM LINE: You are romanticizing martin, who is just as responsible for his violent contributions as the coward zimmerman.

I'm sorry you are stuck with this notion that one of them has to be uplifted at all for any reason. Neither should be glorified for anything.

But if we don't glorify someone, how do we know what our opinion about this incident should be?

"the back of his head was bashed in"

You mean Zimmerman had a boo-boo on the back of his head, one that apparently didn't require any medical attention.

"then why are youdefending treyvon? He decided to get physical."

And this is the bind that black men are in. Trayvon was minding his own business, a guy started pursuing him, apparently caught him, and ... ? We don't know who started what, but there you go with your assumption that it was Trayvon who decided to get physical. Black men cannot win, not with your kind anyway.

Bort - did you travel in a time machine from salem? Is this a witch hunt?

Holy fuck, how many times do I have to spell it out for you: ZIMMERMAN WAS A COWARD. DO YOU HONESTLY THINK HE CAME OUT FISTS A'FLYIN WHEN HE HAD HIS PEA-SHOOTER ON HAND? I'm sorry, but the absurdity of your assumptions demand all-caps.

Zimmerman most likely didn't go in with the intention of murdering a black kid. But he was playing policeman, he exceeded his authority (which by the way was zero), things got out of his control, and he panicked and killed the kid. That's the most likely explanation of what happened.

You go to tremendous lengths to make Trayvon the aggressor here, but even by Florida (white) law, Trayvon was most likely defending himself.

It's ok Gmork, I too hate black youth.

It's the same desire to own art by serial killers or death row inmates. It's like having a snapshot from a psychopath's mind, I suppose.

The high bids on this, however, are trolling. It's like the guy several years ago trying to sell the World's Largest Cheeto. I think the bids hit over million within hours of each posting and it had to be taken down.

The Zimmerman shooting is up there with the Gabrielle Giffords shooting in exposing the motivational fantasy of gun nuts: the right to intimidate and shoot anyone you don't like. If you remember, "What did she expect would happen with those crazy policies of hers?" was the standard nut defense. Liberal policy was her bag of skittles.

At least the anti-choice crowd pretends to condemn clinic shooters.

Gmork; I think you've claimed to agree with 99% of the politics of at least three separate posters now. I hope you never come to understand how foolish and presumptuous that is, because it's fun watching you turn into a simpering wuss at the drop of a hat.

5 stars for the Youtube Warrior!

Jesus Christ is Gmork an enormous piece of shit.

Let me set this MMA bullshit straight because Gmork keeps bringing it up and nobody's challenged him on it.

First of all, anyone who even suggests that Trayvon Martin was an "MMA fighter" or trained in MMA is an ignoramus. Or a liar with a very clear agenda. There is zero evidence that Trayvon Martin ever engaged in anything other than your typical schoolyard fight. Him and half of my high school. Those hoodlums! There is zero evidence that he ever spent a single day at a martial arts gym, but kids these days are aware of MMA and so schoolyard fights become "matches". That doesn't make it an MMA fighter and it doesn't make those who participate MMA fighters. If that were true, again, I went to high school with a couple hundred MMA fighters. So the MMA references made in the trial came from one witness who changed his story. There were also some texts from Martin that referred to rounds in a schoolyard fight, but those texts that were tossed by the judge. Finally, there were videos of Martin standing by while some other kids fought. Not in an MMA bout, but again in a schoolyard. Like kids very often do.

But hey... guess who did actually train MMA? Like, for real? George Zimmerman. I'm curious as to why you didn't mention that. At all. Zimmerman, by his own admission, trained three times a week for somewhere around three years at Kokopelli’s Gym in Longwood, Florida. This is an undisputed fact.

P.S. - Suck my dick.

Fucking references:

"MMA" witness changes story: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-22/news/os-george-zimm erman-key-witnesses-20120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agen t

George Zimmerman actually trained actual MMA: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mmas-george-zimmerman-trial-213200603 .html

Judge tosses texts in which Trayvon describes a schoolyard fight in a fashion similar to an MMA fight, inspiring a shit ton of ignorant, right-leaning blogs to incorrectly label him an MMA fighter: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3041504/posts

Zimmerman's actual MMA gym where he trained MMA at attempts to cash in on his time there: http://hinterlandgazette.com/2013/07/kokopellis-gym-offers-george- zimmerman-training-program-exploiting-trayvon-martin-murder.html

As a painter, he's no John Wayne Gacy.

Need it also be said that Zimmerman also raped his cousin and beat his wife, and punched a cop. Trayvon Martin smoked weed.

Rise above yourself, Gmork.

Counterpoint: go ahead and hate

Another flaw in Zimmerman's testimony is that Trayvon said "You gonna die honky!"
1. Saying stuff like "you gonna die" and "I'm a kill you" is normal in fights. It doesn't mean they actually want to kill you.
2. In all my life I've never heard a black person use the word Honky. I've heard cracker, but never honky. Did Trayvon also call Zimmerman a "jive turkey"? Outside of 70s blacksploitation films nobody uses the word honky. Its the lamest and silliest racial slur out there.

Oh and I checked on it. Just like the Trayvon being an MMA fighter the Lean accusation is also a lie.
You claim to be a super cool liberal like us, but you've clearly been swallowing rubbish from right wing blogs. Those are the only place that have been in an active smear campaign against a dead 16 year old.

Breaking news: a Sanford resident has finally released video footage of the fight between Zimmerman and Trayvon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faegegYeFbo

Poor Zimmerman. Also, I wish the camera lady would quit giggling.

Cena nails it. It's telling that the only references I found to Martin being an "MMA fighter" anywhere on the Internet to came from right-wing blogs. Of course not a single one mentions Zimmerman's actual, extensive MMA training.

>>I believe theft is a crime, and attempted murder is as well. Self defense however, isn't. As cowardly as what zimmerman did was, he is still protected under self defense.

>>Here's a question i'd like someone to answer: If treyvon had never been stopped, and continued raining MMA style blows down on zimmerman, would he have stopped himself before zimmerman's head was a red smear on the sidewalk?

>>The answers you give will be telling.

I don't know what Treyvon Martin would have done, but If I'm unarmed kid, and a man with a gun confronts me in a threatening way, and I somehow manage to get the advantage, I'm not letting up. The only credible motive for an unarmed person to attack an armed person is is that he feels threatened, and desperate. What about HIS right to defend himself?

>>The fact you think Treyvon wasnt a lean-chugging hoodlum kind of makes my point for me. Tons of evidence that he's just as worthless as zimmerman, but youll defend him because you don't want to be accused of being racist?

The fact that you think this is somehow relevant makes my point for me. Being worthless is not a crime. All of this hoodlum bullshit is just smoke.

Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, he had the weapon, and yet he's the one who winds up with his life in danger. How does that happen? It begs the question: What kind of fuckup is this guy? All of this happened because Zimmerman disregarded the advice of the police dispatcher, and was otherwise reckless and or/ incompetent. Whatever happened, he caused to happen. I'm not a lawyer, but I think that ought to be manslaughter.

>>That's one stereotype you should really stop validating - the pussy who is too scared of calling someone a criminal because he happens to be black. Also, the phone call. If you're going to (rightfully) bash zimmerman for his cowardice, at least have the decency to acknowledge the reality that they are both wrong

One of them is wrong, and the other one is dead.

Fuck you, Don't act like the only reason to side with the unarmed kid who gets killed walking from the store is because I'm afraid of being called a racist. Don't insult your own intelligence like that.

MMA STYLE BLOWS, LADIES AND GENTLEMENS.

Gmork wonders why we don't want nuts like him owning guns.

His testicles. He's clearly suffering from testosterone poisoning, and perhaps he'd stop threatening to kill everyone around him and behave in a more civilized manner with a little trim off the trim.

The piece is terrible. Its such banal patriotic pandering. It looks like Thomas Kinkade's blue period.

Kinkade had a blue period?

Its what his blue period would look like if he had one.

Awwww shit, you got me all excited. I want to see a Kinkade blue period so bad right now...

Can we have a Kinkade Week?

Jesus Christ, is there some kind of fine arts program in the military now?

It would be something like George Washington fucking a bald eagle with a single, american flag colored tear running down his cheek. Hey Homer, why don't you take a crack at it?

Since when was Kinkade considered "fine arts"?

And the term "blue period" usually refers to Picasso's emo phase, when his paintings got really depressing and looked like some kid cranked down the saturation and ran them through a Cooling Filter. I imagine a Kinkade blue period would consist of cold, lifeless, abandoned houses, with great big American flags and crucified bald eagles everywhere.

Yeah, I only recently got started with digital stuff. I'm best with pencils and inks, then paints, then maybe charcoal; digital work is way far down, maybe sixth or seventh on my list. But digital coloring is faster, and it's easier, and also I'm out of paint right now. :( If you're any good with digital work, I'm very open to suggestions and critiques! DA is notoriously bad when it comes to ass kissing, and whatever criticism you do receive is usually just ridiculous flames from mouthbreathing idiots, like that Sonic fan who took issue with my hedgehog OC. I don't know any digital artists IRL (I know a bunch of artists, but they're all old and traditional media), and I'm not good enough yet to submit my digital stuff to a place like the ConceptArt forums, so I'm pretty much sunk as far as critiques go.

I know the eyes are fucked up, but did you like my design for Ganja Twerk? Originally, she was going to look like a slightly chunky Applejack with dreadlocks, but I decided to base her off multiracial adult film star Skin Diamond instead.

Here's my advice, if you use a Wacom tablet, NEVER uninstall it and reinstall it, because it only ever works correctly the first installation. It will be a glitchy, worthless, piece of crap from the second installation on.

Actually, I've got a Chinese knockoff tablet that barely works the first time. It usually shits the bed a couple hours after I plug in the USB cable, and I've got to reboot my laptop to get it working again.

Still, it was less than half the price of a comparable Wacom, so I'm not complaining.

Grossly underqual'd for that; but for what it is worth?

Art meme time needs the text at the top removed; prolly the strongest piece otherwise. Same with Rage Quit; no need for the text, it's not a cartoon huh? But it works.. Otherwise, as I think I mentioned to you before, stop being so concrete. Now I'll shut up.

If for some strange reason you haven't found this guy yet, Google Image search these terms:

robert williams paintings

He's got masterful technique, but I think you can pick up some ideas to make your stuff pop a little more.

Art Meme Time is an Art Meme; the text at the top is from the original meme. You know, those little drawing games that people on DA like to do? "Draw Your OC/ Now, Draw Your OC in Another Fandom's Style/ Draw Your OC in a Hat/ Draw Yourself Fucking Your OC" and so on. It'd look nicer without the text, I agree, but then it wouldn't be an Art Meme, and I think a big chunk of the sarcasm would be lost.

And oh yeah, that guy! The Juxtapoz dude right? I used to read that magazine a lot, and I have a ton of respect for the Lowbrow movement - it's one of my favorite "schools" since the Pre-Raphaelites. His compositions can get a bit disorienting sometimes, but you're right, he does "pop". I'm still working on that Kinkade/ lotsmoreorcs hobo Christmas painting, and the Elvgren/ JHMF Santa Boxxy one, so what the shit, I could give some Williams a shot.

I could be wrong, but I think he works mostly in traditional media, not digital.

That was my point, about Art meme. If you cut off the top text, several additional interpretations can legitimately be applied. Cut it free, Homie! Don't tie it down...

Ah, I see! Well, I'll probably do some more preschematic stuff further on down the line; those won't include any text, and will be open for free interpretation.

Would you believe that I'm the ONLY person doing preschematic art on DA?! Or at least tagged as such... don;t judge me, it's my sole claim to fame.

I laughed my ass off at the ASMR painting, because I immediately associated the guy in it with baleen (in a good way!).

It's been a while since I've seen art as fun. You make it look fun. It takes a while to get used to drawing pads, but eventually your hand will stop telling your eyes to look at the thing and just start acting like the stylus is a brush. I've personally found it's easy to get out of practice though, which doesn't happen as fast with brush and canvas.

This almost wants to make me sign up to deviantart.

Oh, digital art as in the MS Paint ponies?! Hell no, I'm not touching my MS Paint Ponies! They're perfect just the way they are! I started doing them as a tribute to Reese Ambler:

http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=127023
http://reeseambler1997.deviantart.com/

I was hoping they'd be crap enough that when I started posting better things, people would accuse me of being an art thief. And I'm worried they're getting a bit too complex for their own good, what with the backgrounds and shit.

When you guys mentioned the digital stuff, I thought you were referring to things like my Gender-Swapped Kaa series, which is also crap, but not on purpose. I really need help with that stuff, particularly with lighting effects and scanning techniques.


Anyway, you guys should all sign up to DA. I was thinking about starting a PoE group there, for sharing poe-related crap and also for coordinating (covert, Prime Directive) safaris. I've been following a handful of exhibit-grade artists, but there's no way to share them with anyone. Like BrainiacAdam and the aforementioned Sonic recolor guy.

(here's a fairly representative example of BrainiacAdam's work:

http://fav.me/d4wf2vd

He's fukken awesome. Think a less rapey ChrisChan, only replace Pokemon with Mr Men)

Okay, I signed up (JoeDonRowsdower), but the horrifically terrible "we own your art shut up asshole" agreement has prevented me from sharing anything that already exists. I'll make something poeFun and put it up in a few days. Hilariously, also found out my real web host failed to auto renew my account from my bank (was going to share with you through that) and suspended me, so I just called and officially ditched them.

Anyone recommend a good hosting plan?

I just find solace in that the world is his prison. I figure he'd be able to resume a normal life sooner had he been convicted of manslaughter.

Seeing as he's making six figures off his shitty paintings now, I think your solace-finding might be a little premature.

He has to do that because he can't get a real job. He can't show himself out in the streets.

"a creative way to express his emotions . . . while remaining indoors"

Also, the Onion had a great op ed on his employment prospects.

"Hello, Mr. Zimmerman, please sit down. I'm looking over your resume here, and it says you shot a boy?"

To be honest, I don't see why he couldn't get a job that doesn't require interaction with the public, but I honestly think he can't let this go at this point, emotionally