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Comment count is 17
Prickly Pete - 2015-10-06

Maybe my comprehension ain't so good. What's to get mad about here, exactly?

EvilHomer - 2015-10-06

Check the Youtube comments.

Cena_mark - 2015-10-06

I didn't realize this was new. I assumed women have been in the Rangers for while. It seems like there wasn't much a fuss made about it by either side. Either way its like gays in the military. Those opposed will fuss and fume and declare this to be the end of our proud military tradition, yet time marches forward.

EvilHomer - 2015-10-06

The short answer is: everyone's answer is different. I'll break down the hree most common gripes, though.

1) I'm not going to lie, a good portion of the anger seems to be just straight-out sexism; some people are mad merely because they're women. (take it away, JHM)

2) A considerably more rational concern, which many people are raising, is the possibility that Ranger school "went easy" on Cpt Griest and Lt Haver. This gets brought up a lot in the comments section, and there's even a pretty high profile news story about it:

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/army-vet-critical-of-female-ran gers-reaches-out-to-skeptical-congressman-1.370960

Basically, a Congressman and a retired Ranger instructor are conducting investigations into whether these two soldiers earned their Ranger tabs legit, or whether this was all just a big Army PR stunt. In fairness to Congressman Russel and Mr Moore, it's certainly *possible* that the class was rigged - BUT - to the best of my knowledge, the idea that the class was rigged is pure conjecture, and there has been almost zero forthcoming evidence to suggest this was the case. As of now, the only concrete claim which I can locate is that both Griest and Haver were "recycled" - that is, they failed a portion of Ranger school, and had to go back and retake the course. This is not uncommon even with male candidates, and it doesn't necessarily mean that they were getting special treatment, let alone didn't deserve to graduate. There may be more info forthcoming in the near future, but so far, the evidence weighs heavily in Cpt Griest and Lt Haver's favour.

3) There's a third argument which crops up a few times, one which is definitely more valid than the preceding two, yet is also fairly misleading: that is, Cpt Griest and Lt Haver completed "Ranger school" and received their "Ranger tab", but they are NOT full-fledged Rangers (as in, soldiers assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment) and they did not complete RASP, the hardcore infantry training program designed specifically for the 75th. I say this argument is misleading because, while it is certainly true that neither woman has completed RASP (nor are they likely to anytime soon), it must be remembered that they A) are not allowed to qualify for the 75th, due to current military regulations forbidding women in infantry roles, and B) are still graduates of Ranger School, which is a Big Fucking Deal. Ranger School may not be as "tough" as RASP, but it's not huggy by any stretch of the word, and frankly it's pretty fucking insulting to minimize their accomplishment in such a manner - it's sorta like the military equivalent of turning up your nose at a woman who got her PhD from Vassar, because ooooo, she didn't go to Yale.

EvilHomer - 2015-10-06

Cena - no, they haven't. They've been in combat for awhile, although that's been both unofficial and unintentional. They're also just now being allowed into various close-combat support MOSes which they'd been previously barred from (IIRC, they are still forbidden from being in the infantry). However, until these last few cycles, women weren't allowed in Ranger School, and it'll be years, decades (if ever) before they're allowed to serve in the 75th (you can get your Ranger tab and be Ranger-qualified even if you're not in the Ranger regiment, which, along with the fact that the rest of the Army stole their berets, illicits no end of griping from the Rangers themselves. The Army loves trolling Rangers).

I love how Lt Haver acts like Applejack, and Cpt Grier is like Rainbow Dash. Pretty soon all the female Coasties will want to join the Army, to be more like these chicks, and then you, you poor bastard, you'll be left stuck in a floating sausage fest. No more Coastie gal pals, because they're all Rangers.

Cena_mark - 2015-10-06

The Coast Guard is the most progressive service. There aren't any rates that bar females, we were the first to allow gays, and now we're going to allow transgenders to serve in the gender of their choice. Who needs the Rangers, what we really need are Coast Guard SEALs. Also we're like Rangers. Rescue Rangers.

EvilHomer - 2015-10-06

Well of course the Coast Guard allows females in any rate. The Coast Guard's got no jobs that even come close to being a Ranger; it'd be sort of silly to tell women that they can't swab decks or pick up drunk civilians stranded with a fishing boat.

Cena_mark - 2015-10-06

AST is extremely challenging. That's what The Guardian was about.

Raggamuffin - 2015-10-07

"I'll give you the short answer!" *writes 10,000 word essay* -Evilhomer

Two Jar Slave - 2015-10-07

He gave a short answer, then elaborated on it. Wasn't too challenging to follow.

Gmork - 2015-10-07

off topic discussion

oddeye - 2015-10-07

Yeah that was totally a 10,000 word essay. So glad I survived War & Peace here because now I know wtf the fuss is about.

Thanks EvilHomer, I'll turn in my paper by the end of the day.

Baron_Von_Bad_Beaver - 2015-10-07

I don't really know too much about this subject--women entering training, mainly because I don't care. The military is a closed chapter to me, I'm proud of my service but oh well, I'm out.

That being said, if they can pass the training, make the grade, then good for them--why are so many people getting butthurt?

infinite zest - 2015-10-07

Pretty much because people have butts in the first place. If it's true that they passed through easily though like Sons of Bushes at Yale and not the sort of GI Jane "we can do it" training we're used to seeing in movies then that's concerning, since lives are at stake, no matter your gender, spirit animal, race or sexual orientation.

I never served but my dad got drafted, and if it wasn't for a lottery I probably wouldn't be typing this since his entire platoon got slaughtered pretty much immediately. So proper training is very important to me. I want to call bullshit on Mr.Moore's comments, but hey, I've only worked at the VA, I've never served.

ashtar. - 2015-10-06

would Griest, but Haver has weird eyebrows

That guy - 2015-10-06

You know you didn't HAVE to pick one of the two, right?

Maybe you can be the new THA SUGAH RAIN??

EvilHomer - 2015-10-07

Griest is absolutely gorgeous. She's just the right mix of feminine and tomboy; give her some daddy issues and a cosplay vore fetish, and she'd be the perfect woman for me. Maybe not THE hottest female soldier I've ever seen, but I'd give her at least an HS8/HS9.

Haver's eyebrows are fine, but she moves them weird. Like someone's spraying her in the face with an air hose. HS6 for her; would, if she'd deign to having me.

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