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Comment count is 40
bawbag - 2016-06-18

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/18/jo-cox-mp-shot-thomas-m air-arrives-at-court-following-murder-cha/

dairyqueenlatifah - 2016-06-18

You're right. The death of this woman is totally the purpose behind Britain First and the Brexit movement.

Anyone who actually values their nation's ability to self-govern and likes the culture they grew up in and doesn't want their way of life destroyed is passive murderer. It all makes sense to me now.

Anaxagoras - 2016-06-18

Yes, he is right.

You see, the problem is that you don't seem to understand what he's saying. The far right didn't want the death of that particular woman; the death of any vocal pro-EU supporter would have been acceptable.

By the way, here's some helpful information: the culture you grew up in is gone. Period. I don't care which country we're talking about, or how old you are, if you're an adult then the culture you grew up in Is gone. Time has moved forward. Deal with it.

lotsmoreorcs - 2016-06-18

america is embroiled in a massive epidemic of cultural erosion which has given rise to the rape epidemic as well as the disintegration of language and face-to-face communication. so when you claim someone, especially an american, is pining for some cultural revenant of the good old days...i mean american society is only a little over 200 years old for petes sake!

however, a shift towards a more nation-state centric, authoritarian government in this country is, in my opinion, going to be necessary to try and undo some of the more disconcerting trends and anomalies that are tearing away at the fabric of a civilized, functional society. i don't think this has anything to do with "them old white days" being over, or whatever the hell you're trying to say

bawbag - 2016-06-18

***** Anaxagoras gets it.

Also Britain First, the fascist group known for invading mosques, firebombing south-asian newsagents and using the death of Lee Rigby as propaganda for their cause (despite being told not to by his regiment and family) recently called for 'direct action' from their followers, the murderer yelled 'Britain First' while shooting and stabbing her but hey sure those must be TOTALLY UNRELATED things, fuck me right?

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/17/far-right-britain-first-pa rty-tries-avoid-blame-lawmakers-assassination/

Bort - 2016-06-18

When guys like these say "Britain First", their point is more "Everybody Else Not At All".

Miss Henson's 6th grade class - 2016-06-18

So Orcs, let me get this straight: you're all about a Trump presidency because you're afraid that the quality of the language Americans use and their general level of civility are on the decline and that he's just the man to help reverse these trends.

I can think of some problems with your argument.

Bort - 2016-06-18

orcs is probably just trolling. Except instead of being fun like EvilHomer, he's just unpleasant.

SolRo - 2016-06-19

At what point does "Just trolling" become almost as bad?

Looks like it's also becoming a new "I'm not a bigot..." excuse.

Bort - 2016-06-19

Good question; I say it becomes "just as bad" when it actually gets anyone to say "you know, he's persuaded me he's right". For now he's just trying to stir up anger because that's an easy way to get attention, so he stakes out positions that he's not going to persuade anyone to join.

Cena_mark - 2016-06-19

Cultural erosion? What culture? Culture especially American culture isn't static. American culture has always been changing and always had those trying to "preserve" our culture, cause they happen to like things exactly as they are for that moment. Ponder that as you eat your pizza.

Xenocide - 2016-06-20

It's interesting how the people whining about "cultural erosion" seem to have decided that the essential basis of their culture boils down to a great big "WHITES ONLY" sign. Your "culture" is just tired old white supremacy trying desperately to cling to life in an era when people have finally caught wise to its bullshit.

I'm actually opposed to those sorts of cultures eroding, though. Erosion is too slow a process. I'd like to see some Cultural Obliteration.

baleen - 2016-06-20

yeah, lotsmoreorcs, trolling or not, represents no culture.
I agree with xenocide.
Their deaths cannot come soon enough.

memedumpster - 2016-06-18

The United Kingdom : The Alabama, Texas, Arizona, and Mississippi of the European Union.

If Britain leaves the EU, the idea of an economic power big enough to sanction the USA for a hundred years of gross human exploitation evaporates overnight.

That would suck so hard.

Bort - 2016-06-18

To be fair, there isn't a nation in Europe that doesn't have a history of gross exploitation, and pretty recently at that. The only nations that might get a pass on that are those nations too small to have ever had colonies, but I'm not sure how much virtue to read into that.

This by no means excuses the US's predations, but if the US is guilty, it doesn't mean that not-US means not-guilty.

memedumpster - 2016-06-18

Europe shows no signs of seeking military hegemony over the earth. Sure, they did for hundreds of years, but they are trying to be modern and they don't know how close they are to being conquered. Britain will be soviet Britain by 2050 if they leave the EU, breadlines and suicide. The USA will target them for collapse to supplant their power in Europe. NATO will not save them if we decide it wont, and neither will the UN or WTO. I hope they have a lot of confidence in the Chinese military's capacity to keep the BRICS bank afloat when this country goes full global war retard.

It's almost like Britain can't fathom that the threat to its existence isn't social, it's imperial like it's always been.

You need your neighbors, Britain, or you wont survive.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-18

>> Europe shows no signs of seeking military hegemony over the earth.

... except, you know, for the Ukraine, and all of the anti-Arabic "coalition wars" of the past twenty years or so, and really everything the United States has ever been involved in, including Vietnam.

Britain is, and always will be, part of Oceania. The rest of Europe needs to decide whether it stands with Oceania or Eurasia; the Belgians are not sufficient to be anyone's overlords.

Nominal - 2016-06-18

Despite what Anglophiles will tell you, the British version of the Gabrielle Giffords shooting was worse.

Binro the Heretic - 2016-06-18

Saw a picture of the shooter.

He looks EXACTLY like the sort of person who would do this sort of thing.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-18

'Not All Far-Rights'

bawbag - 2016-06-18

***** that's spot on.

Anaxagoras - 2016-06-18

That is pretty good, actually. Nice one, EH.

StanleyPain - 2016-06-19

I like the right-wing narrative of the EU separation being about "self governing" when, of course, it is almost literally the opposite considering just how insanely unstable it would make Britain. It's one thing to be part of a flawed, but generally functioning collection of nations. It's another to just say "fuck you" and then maintain a ridiculously tense and adversarial relationship with everyone around you which will end up taking about four times the resources it would have just taken to stay as it was anyway.

Caminante Nocturno - 2016-06-19

This is all Angela Merkel's fault.

Nikon - 2016-06-19

Ultimately yes.

GravidWithHate - 2016-06-19

Well I'm just glad we could all find common ground and agree that when a violent act is committed by a member of a tribe we identify as part of our coalition, it's an isolated lunatic who is in no way representative of the larger group and when a violent act is committed by a member of a tribe we are in opposition to, it's direct proof of the perfidy and inherent violence of that tribe.

Anaxagoras - 2016-06-19

Wait... we do what now?

I'll go ahead & assume you're sincere, and explain your mistake. See, we let Muslims in general off the hook when a crazy goes on a shooting spree because Muslims in general don't advocate mass murder. Muslims in general don't advocate anything; they're too heterogeneous to really advocate any one thing. Or, to put it another way, they're not really a tribe in the sense you're using. We might hold a violent Muslim group to account, (e.g. ISIS or Wahabbist imams) though. Depends on the circumstances.

In this case, we are holding the far right to account because they advocated for this very thing. Now, you're correct that we should be careful in who we include in our label "the far right". The Tories probably don't qualify, for example. (Note: the Tories are definitely *not* my tribe, but I'm excluding them from blame all the same.) Britain First, on the other hand... well... they seem to deserve some of the blame due what they have said & done in the past.

GravidWithHate - 2016-06-19

I'd agree with you if this post just mentioned "Britain First"; who from my limited research are basically a neo-Nazi group and for whom this is certainly something they advocated for. If this post was framed as an example of the way modern communications allows mentally ill people to be exposed to fringe ideologies and the potentially disastrous consequences of that dynamic, then fine, I would not have commented.

But if you'll glance up at the description the first two words are "Brexit Campaign", that's a far wider net, that catches in a huge range of people. Boris Johnson is one of the leaders of the leave campaign and a sitting MP. Do you believe that the assassination of another MP is the result he was after?

I read the Guardian, and they've run various columns that are pro-Brexit from a left wing perceptive, largely focused on the EU's democratic deficit and the social inequalities resulting from the embrace of neo and ordo liberal economic policies by the EU. Were these supporters of Brexit desiring in their heart of hearts that a political assassination should be carried out against the remain camp?

If I believe that staying with the trans-national organization largely responsible for imposing austerity policies on nations that have quite literally killed people, and who's response any major event seems to be ad-hoc and shambolic at best is something a reasonable person could oppose do I therefore want to see public servants gunned down by madmen?

(Please forgive the rhetoric, it's three in the morning and I'm pretty drunk)

I don't know. I don't know anything, really. I just keep seeing people insisting that if you don't believe something you must be advocating for something appalling, and that makes me afraid. Afraid that that skeletal bitch was right when she said there was no such thing as society. Afraid that the idea of a common good was a temporary dream borne of states that were abberantly prosperous because of looted wealth and we're all reverting to the mean of human history. I don't know how to end this. I wish I had more wine.

bawbag - 2016-06-19

The main reason I put a Brexit tag is that the 'leave' campaign have been ramping up the rhetoric for the last few months and Britain First and UKIP have been at the forefront of it.

Just some examples:

It's not a stretch to imply that this rhetoric can set off the ones crazy enough to kill, it has happened before.

magnesium - 2016-06-19

So, the latest rise of fascism in the west isn't stopping any time soon, is it? Suggestions for a good place to hide and ride this shit out?

Nominal - 2016-06-19

The voting booth

Nominal - 2016-06-19

(also because it's the last place they'd look for progressives!)

Bort - 2016-06-19

Five withheld stars for that, to force you to make posts more to my liking.

dairyqueenlatifah - 2016-06-19

I don't think you know what "fascism" means.

magnesium - 2016-06-19

dairyqueenlatifah, I haven't really been around much lately. You, uh, you got weird, eh?

Bort - 2016-06-19

Myself, I don't call things "fascist" unless they meet some pretty stringent criteria. I am more forgiving of terms like "neo-fascist" or "crypto-fascist" which denote differences from Original Formula Fascism, which needs several of the following:

- A belief that society used to be right but has fallen to decadence, and needs to be regenerated / purified to return to its previous state. (This is probably the biggest reason why fascists and communists don't get along: communists believe society has always sucked but is moving towards a better communist future.)

- A party / leader whose will is law.

- A desire for military conquest.

- Contempt for the weak.

- A dedicated effort to root out those people who are held responsible for society's decadent state.

- Corporatism: the government dictates to the various "organs" of society what roles they are to play and within what limits, for the health of the "body". (Not to be confused with "corporatism" as dummies on the Left use it today because they believe you can add "ism" to anything you don't like to make it a pejorative.)

- Snazzy uniforms.

- Suppression of civil rights.

Not all reactionary movements are fascist, though they tend towards authoritarianism and a police state.

Bus_Aint_Comin - 2016-06-20

so all that's missing is a snazzy uniform?

Bort - 2016-06-20

Well in the US anyway, not many people are looking for a golden age to return to (or at least they can't agree on which one), military conquest is not all that popular once you remind people that they'd have to serve as boots on the ground, corporatism is considered socialism, and a wife beater and a hat that says "Who farted? (I did)" is not a very snazzy uniform. Also, civil liberties are a mixed bag: cracking down on the other guy's liberties is fine, but not mine.

That guy - 2016-06-23

editorializing in the Desc:

That guy - 2016-06-23

There's not a 1:1 correspondence between those two things.

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