|Pillager - 2018-04-02 |
Blind man's bluff, indeed.
|Anaxagoras - 2018-04-02 |
I know we're not supposed to have videos directly targeting other members here, but damn if this didn't make me laugh.
Yeah, sorry, that was immature, and against the guidelines, AND we Democrats should resist the urge to turn on each other.
But, you know.
|Miss Henson's 6th grade class - 2018-04-02 |
Quite frankly, Bort's opinions are the most reasonable that I've read on this board. I agree with him on many things.
While I agree that the center-left is a confused place to be these days, it's been productive ground during much of recent American history. And there's no reason to think that pulling the party to the left is going to win you more votes. Sometimes I think that lefties fight among themselves so they don't have to deal with the fact that so many of their fellow countrymen thought that Donald Trump would be -- at the very least -- an okay president.
The party was pulled to the right by Bill Clinton in response to the success Reagan had in grabbing working class Democrats and hasn't returned to where it was. In this light, Bernie might just be seen as a correction where Hillary a slight left of Bill and still to the right of where the Dems used to be. Shrug.
Maybe. I suspect the infighting is more borne out of the fact that other left-wing people are persuadable; they listen and evaluate arguments, unlike the right. Arguing with someone like that can be rewarding, unlike the bullshitters on the right.
I wish that they would wake up & understand that in-depth, good faith argumentation isn't what's needed now against the right. It's tactics & how to best to defeat the unreasonable enemy. Of course, when you start dealing with roughly half the population like that, democracy is pretty much dead, and *that's* what they don't want to admit.
In any case, I agree with you about Bort overall. It's just that he/she has become kinda one-note on this topic, and it's largely unmerited; most people (as far as I know) on this site voted for Clinton, whether or not we supported Sanders in the primary. So saying everyone on this site is "the problem" is kinda silly; we voted for the leftist candidate we had, when push came to shove.
But in any case, I hope Bort doesn't stop posting here; I do like his/her posts usually.
Oh boy, it must be my birthday or something.
"most people (as far as I know) on this site voted for Clinton, whether or not we supported Sanders in the primary"
At least a few very proudly refused to vote, or cast a vote for Jill Stein. But supporting Bernie in the primary wasn't itself the problem; the problem is how many people spent the run-up to the general election arguing that Hillary doesn't deserve anyone's support. So let's call that what it is: campaigning for Trump. Volunteering for the Trump campaign, and then casting a vote for Hillary at the last minute, doesn't undo all the volunteer work.
And again, there are the people that didn't vote for Hillary, and feel it's Hillary's fault for not forcing them to do the responsible thing.
I have to admit, I visit this site a lot less regularly than I used to; there are people here I actively dislike, and that's new. Most likely I am on my way out, and I don't like that. I realized the other month that the jail heist in "Girl in Gold Boots" works ONLY because Buzz can teleport (how did he get past the guard without Harry Blatz?), and this is the only place I can possibly share that. But then I look at the day's news -- today's headline is "EPA To Gut The Only Major Federal Rule To Cut Climate Pollution From Vehicles" -- and I'm back remembering how many people here worked to make that possible.
"I suspect the infighting is more borne out of the fact that other left-wing people are persuadable; they listen and evaluate arguments, unlike the right. Arguing with someone like that can be rewarding, unlike the bullshitters on the right."
Yeah, no. If the Left were so damn given to reason, the absolute need to keep Trump out of office would have been so self-evident in late 2016 that nobody would have needed to argue the point. Instead we got a fuckton of pushback: "you have to give me a better reason than BEELZEBITCH isn't Trump". (Which we did, by the way, over and over.) Only ~80% of Bernie primary voters went on to vote for Hillary, while the defectors to Trump were enough to put him over the top (as were the Steintards, many of whom were former Bernie voters).
Yeah I'm repeating myself, but I don't see how any other argument even begins to be valid. My one note just happens to be the right note; I'm no genius but holy fuck some of you.
Bort, I get why you're frustrated and tired of this. Many of us are. Don't leave, though.
I agree: don't leave Bort!
But as long as you're here, I'd really like to try to convince you to stop raging against left-wing Democrats in such over the top terms. The younger generation really is on to something here when they look for candidates (hard as they are to find!) with a trace of authenticity. Dismissing them in one broad "YOU'RE REALLY CAMPAIGNING FOR TRUMP!" does them and you a disservice.
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