The term "Capitalist-Imperialist party (red and blue editions)" has been more and more true with every passing day.

Their methods are different, but they have the same goals.

no, they don't

they really don't, guys

just because you're teetering on the far end of the political spectrum doesn't mean differences don't exist. just because you've never bothered to actually get into the nuts and bolts of policy doesn't mean it isn't there

but don't let me stop you from preening and posturing for each other

I bet you can't name any differences.

One openly supports police violence

The other wants police reform.

See also; not republican California passing police accountability laws

Yeah it's too bad there aren't any Democrats in a position to pass federal legislation to reform police, and it's too bad that there aren't any Democrats in charge of big city police departments with long histories of police violence. You know, since Democrats want to reform police so badly.

It’s too bad you find fascism an acceptable option if you don’t get everything you want.

What is Riker's Island? Is that fascism?

What is love?

If they "want" police reform, then why aren't they doing anything towards that goal? Democrats across the country have been INCREASING police budgets.

Oh, but police reform doesn't work either.

And yeah, the democrats are just as proto-fascist as the republicans, they just have better slogans.

And sure, there are a few tiny exceptions, like LA dropping their police budget by what, 1 percent? That's just more performative nonsense.

No, the Democrats love their jack booted thugs just as much as the Republicans do.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2021/09/30/governor-newsom-signs-policing-r eform-legislation/


Again, you want to allow fascists to take over if you cannot get instant gratification

There is so much that you could say against Democrats that would be worth taking seriously, but when you go for "they're all the same" you really don't seem to be interested in taken seriously.

Glasseye, can you categorically prove that if you give police less money, that automatically equals reform? Big assumption there, buddy! If I was a.Democrat, I might be looking for ways to reform the police while increasing the budget because good luck reforming the police by forcing austerity on them, and because Republican groups are.pumping money into scaring voters. You want it to be simpler than it is, and I understand that. After all, a dream is a wish your heart makes.

Is there any point in arguing against this canard yet again? I think I might fare better comparing crackersmack's brain to a box of dirt. There are differences, but they're most performative. I'd say that their ability to be.influenced by rational argument is about the same.

SolRo: there's a lot a bills there so it's hard to address everything, but most of that is either the bare minimum (decertifying officers: other states mostly already do that) in line with most agency policy already in place (use of force guidelines) or useless/harmful and cosmetic (requiring a BA, banning blood chokes/VNR, etc.). Some of it isn't bad (release of records) but most of the famous individual cases of police killing were either a) already illegal or in violation of policy or b) still legal under this package.

Call me when they fund 24/7 state wide mental health crisis responders. Or free rehab for anyone who wants it. Or disband and reform departments with broken cultures. Or make Corrections kick people out better than they were, rather than much worse. Or, just a crazy idea, do something about poverty, systemic racism, and homelessness.

One common feature of these reforms is that they don't cost much. Real reform will cost a lot.

Just for objectivity about the scale of the actual problem:

China's incarceration rate: 121 per 100,000
California's incarceration rate: 310 per 100,000

imagine saying 'democrats' and not distinguishing between voters and politicians

five stars for stupidity

like every high-profile murder by police in recent years has occurred in localities and states completely controlled by Democrats, nothing has been done except cover up for police ala Rahm Emanuel

it's just delusional to act as if elected Democrats have any different opinion of cops than the worst rightwing chuds do, they have never given you an indication otherwise

Thanks for proving you’re a neocon trolling as a leftist

you use your vote to support neocon policy and I do not

"Again, you want to allow fascists to take over if you cannot get instant gratification"

Both halves of the capitalist-imperialist party are proto-fascist. They both enthusiastically support the police state, murdering innocent civilians abroad, and the buoying up of capitalism at all costs. This argument holds no water.

Oh, but I guess there is one small difference between Biden and Trump; Biden has deported ~690,000 people under title 42 compared to Trumps ~440,000, so Biden is objectively worse.

You idiots aren’t worth the time of day.

Have fun felating yourself.

>>>We've won on messaging.

So does this mean that Bernie Sanders is now the President of the United States of Messaging? And here I was.thinking you hadn't accomplished anything real!

>>>like every high-profile murder by police in recent years has occurred in localities and states completely controlled by Democrats, nothing has been done except cover up for police ala Rahm Emanuel

Wow that's a really big claim that you've chosen not to back up with any supporting arguments at all. huge if true!

Yes John that's right, despite holding political views that represent the overwhelming majority opinion, the left has been stymied at every turn by the depth of the corruption of your political party. Shutting down the left is the one of the very few things that Democrats will actually exercise political power to accomplish. I guess that's something that you can be proud of.

>>>One common feature of these reforms is that they don't cost much. Real reform will cost a lot.

You should talk to glasseye, who believes that reforming police equals budget cuts.

>>>Yes John that's right, despite holding political views that represent the overwhelming majority opinion, the left has been stymied at every turn by the depth of the corruption of your political party. Shutting down the left is the one of the very few things that Democrats will actually exercise political power to accomplish. I guess that's something that you can be proud of.

It probably feels like you guys are constantly tripping over your own dicks because we're zapping you with some Jedi mind spell, but actually, it's just gravity.

"You should talk to glasseye, who believes that reforming police equals budget cuts."

No, but they're a good start. I see the process as going like this: defund, disarm, abolish.

The idea of "reforming" the police is fundamentally flawed. You cannot reform an institution so wed to white supremacy and overwhelming violence. All prior attempts at reform have utterly failed, while police budgets and police violence expand astronomically.

"You idiots aren’t worth the time of day.

Have fun felating yourself."

Cool story.

Look up the statistics on police violence sometime. Then take a look at how much COVID relief money politicians of the capitalist-imperialist party are funneling to the pigs.

My democratic governor wants to give them $75 million, while those same pigs are bulldozing their fourth houseless encampment this week in one local city, after getting off on brutalizing scores of houseless folks and protesters.

Build back better, by murdering!

Plus, no comment on Biden's use of title 42? What about the fact that he's literally going to court to defend it?

Even if you hate immigrants, which is what I'd expect from a capitalist-imperialist party (red or blue editions), how do you reconcile this obvious disconnect? He's literally doing a Trump thing, and doing it more vigorously than Trump did. Yes, Trump was bad, but in this case, Biden is objectively worse.

I tune out “leftists” dumb enough to spread republican agitprop

So glad that an internet argument is more important to you than the lives of literally hundreds of thousands of immigrants.

>>>Their methods are different, but they have the same goals.

Both parts of this statement are the opposite of reality.

"It probably feels like you guys are constantly tripping over your own dicks because we're zapping you with some Jedi mind spell, but actually, it's just gravity."

clap clap

I thought about it.

mOrE NeOLibEraLiSM wILl FiX tHe pRobLeMs CaUsEd bY nEolIBeRAlIsm

>>>So glad that an internet argument is more important to you than the lives of literally hundreds of thousands of immigrants.

This the most asinine thing anyone has ever said about me in my 17 years of POE.

It's not the meanest, most threatening, stupid, and its certainly not the most libelous thing that has been said about me, but it is so VERY asinine. Just to be sure, I looked it up.

Go fuck yourself. Extra hard.

Not being abused, baited, insulted all the time is a pretty low bar for charmed.

I will vote for Bernie Sanders when he's on the ticket. When he's not on the ticket I will not vote for him.

And in 2021, he might have been on the ticket if the Bernie Bronies hadn't insisted on shooting themselves twice in each foot, and once in the dick, after the 2016 convention. When you never ever win, accusing the winners of corruption is always going to be low hanging fruit.

I guess maybe you can try.to win our hearts and minds by forcing us to.admit the OBVIOUS TRUTH that BIDEN IS JUST AS BAD. I doubt if you could get me to admit that if you waterboarded me.

You're gonna need more than one lesson. And thats what you're gonna get.

Take a look at America right now. THAT'S how badly the American Left has fucked up.

Hey you all chose to gamble on a uniquely unlikeable vanity candidate for rich white ladies, and we all got burned because of it. The disaster was exacerbated by the Dem strategy of using their media connections to elevate Trump so that they could create a scenario where everybody would have to mobilize for Hillary despite her being one of the most loathed people in America. And then her deranged fans want to blame that mess on the only respectable and decent candidate in the race. You all deserve what's coming.

>>>>And then her deranged fans want to blame that mess on the only respectable and decent candidate in the race. You all deserve what's coming.


There's that classic American leftist charm, making friends and building bridges like always! I used to work with a conservative whose idea of a far left.politician was Teddy Kennedy. The American Left is so unliked and so unlikable that they have yet to achieve what what the majority of Americans would consider basic visibility. That's how Tucker Carlson can convince viewers that Barak Obama is a communist. These people wouldn't know a real socialist because they never see one, because while you excel at making 80 per cent of Americans hate you, when it comes to getting the message out, you will leave no bed unshitted.
.

>>>. And then her deranged fans want to blame that mess on the only respectable and decent candidate in the race

Readers of English will note that I didn't blame Bernie, that I had kind things to say about Bernie. Like Jesus, I find Bernie quite admirable, but his isiot followers tend to be incredibly terrible. I don't blame Bernie; I blame the Bernie Bronies, for sucking at politics so bad that being right about the issues becomes a liability. I was.so.happy when Bernie arrived on the scene. It seemed like just what we needed, a viable American Left, but the Bernie Bronies are determined to leave no pooch unscrewed as they keep on building that losing streak.

The policies promoted by the Bernie left in America all enjoy widespread majority support, even across party lines in cases like Medicare For All. We've won on messaging. Where we've failed is in our hesitancy to attack corrupt Democrats, and that hurts our credibility because of how easy it is to see that Democrats are full of shit. American voters have heard leftist policy articulated by a Democrat before, and it turned out to be bullshit as soon as he took office. That's a big hurdle to overcome.

Tucker Carlson can convince his viewers that Obama is whatever he wants because Obama stands for nothing. Obama wasted 8 years and a tremendous amount of goodwill making sure that Wall Street felt no consequences for the last economic collapse, and doing basically nothing else. We're living in the wreckage of Obama's failure and we will be for a long time. But hey, hey got that nice house out of it.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/09/politics/hunter-biden-los-angeles-a rt-show/index.html

'"We're going to run this like the Obama-Biden administration," Biden told People magazine early in his tenure. "No one in our family and extended family is going to be involved in any government undertaking or foreign policy."
The President has long faced scrutiny over his family's actions and their appearance of conflicts of interest, including Hunter Biden's business dealings -- an issue that became a lightning rod for the 2020 presidential campaign and sparked impeachment proceedings against Trump. News of Hunter Biden's burgeoning art career and the prices of his artworks raised alarms among ethics experts expressing concern over whether individuals would purchase the art to gain influence with the President. The pieces were expected to be priced between $75,000 and $500,000 -- largely seen as steep for an artistic debut.


In July, the first son told the "Nota Bene: This Week in the Art World" podcast that art prices are "completely subjective" and that he never set the prices.


"Look, man, I never set my prices -- what my art was going to cost, what it costs or how much it would be priced at. I would be amazed, you know, if my art had sold at, um, you know, for $10," he said.'


Between this & the border snafu, the GOP is going to have a field day...

https://comer.house.gov/press-release?ID=F3513C36-64B4-43D3-8F 15-339D212E611D

"Comer: Hunter Biden’s Artwork is Another Attempt to Profit Off His Father’s Position in Government"

The real problem will be the supply chain shitting the bed right before Christmas. The Biden Administration is going to take the full blame for people not being able to by gifts for their family.

If you have to be charmed into doing what's right, then you don't really care about doing what's right.

Voting is irrelevant; it'll never change anything. The real work is in your community.

I agree with crackersmack on most issues, and yet I hate him. Why? Obviously, its because of the corrupt Democrats.

Speaking of Corrupt Democrats;

"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign.

But when a Democratic candidate goes out and explains what the New Deal and fair Deal really are--when he stands up like a man and puts the issues before the people--then Democrats can win, even in places where they have never won before. It has been proven time and again.

We are getting a lot of suggestions to the effect that we ought to water down our platform and abandon parts of our program. These, my friends, are Trojan horse suggestions. I have been in politics for over 30 years, and I know what I am talking about, and I believe I know something about the business. One thing I am sure of: never, never throw away a winning program. This is so elementary that I suspect the people handing out this advice are not really well-wishers of the Democratic Party."

https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/library/public-papers/129/addres s-national-convention-banquet-americans-democratic-action

The people Truman warned us about have hijacked the party.

Another great Truman quote: "One man is as good as another as another, as long as he isn't a nigger or a chinaman. " Got any good Woodrow Wilson quotes?

If you have a quote that will convince me that Harry Truman would have supported Trump over Biden, you will have made a minor point. I don't think he would have. Most democrats will support whoever is on the ticket. Ive been doing that since Jimmy Carter. The thing about deliberately pissing off the Democratic base is that there's no upside. As a strategy, it's not going to pay off down the road. Like every reprobate in a red hat, you're just cutting your own throat to own the libs. Trolling is bad politics.

“Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.”

https://www.businessinsider.com/hunter-bidens-art-gallery-arra ngement-is-whacko-ethics-law-expert-2021-10

Harry would up in arms over the $375,000.00 that Hunter scored...

WhAt aBOUt HiS lApTOP?.

>>>“Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.”

https://www.businessinsider.com/hunter-bidens-art-gallery-arra ngement-is-whacko-ethics-law-expert-2021-10

Okay, I won't defend this, but I will point out that Hunter Biden isn't a politician.

I don't understand the ethics, but Business Insider is a pretty good source. From the name, you might expect a Trumpist mouthpiece, but it's not.

Are you suggesting that this is any way equivalent to the corruption of the Trump administration? Because isn't that what we were discussing? And no, it's not.

https://tinyurl.com/p9nd4f3s

"The real problem will be the supply chain shitting the bed right before Christmas. The Biden Administration is going to take the full blame for people not being able to by gifts for their family."

oh yeah there's hundredreds of thousands of dead from the quarter-ass covid response in red states during a motherfucking plague but biden's really gonna get it because the chrimbus presents are gonna be late

do you ever just go back and read some of this dumbdick shit you have to write because you've pretzel'd yourself into these positions? just curious

I know he isn't a politician.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/16/hunter-biden-j oe-art-ethics-paintings

"This is a man whose entire life has been is based off of making money on his father’s political career"

Walter Shaub

&

Ethics expert Kathleen Clark, a professor at Washington University School of Law, joined criticism of the arrangement. “It’s really unfortunate that Hunter Biden has chosen to attempt to make money in a way that is vulnerable to influence peddling.


“Now, he’s an adult and the ethics standards that bind elected officials and civil servants don’t apply to him directly. On the other hand, not all forms of compensated work have this kind of vulnerability but this kind of work does because it’s so difficult to know exactly what the value of a painting is.”

Everyone filled their diaper about Trump's hijinks for 4 years. Now we're to ignore the sleazy business dealings of a former crackhead?

Lookit me! I'm a centrist!

Might as well throw my hat in the ring

And suddenly campaigns will spend a million dollars on poetv to get the two moderate votes

This is not about being a centrist. Its about being a raging hardon. There are a thousand things we could be working together on, but instead our smacklord keep going back to "Biden is just as bad", which is not only pointless, even if it were true, I would never admit it. You keep pushing on the one immovable spot, because your gift for making people hate you is just that natural and instictive as.Peter Parker's spidey-sense.

And now you've got a guy that does 99.9% of the exact same shit as Trump. Good job, I guess?

I'll keep on doing the actual work in my community to make people's lives a bit less miserable, while the politicians YOU voted for literally bulldoze their belongings.

>>>And now you've got a guy that does 99.9% of the exact same shit as Trump. Good job, I guess?

Maybe I'm too suspicious, but I'm guessing you don't have a source for that 99.9 per cent number.

>>>I'll keep on doing the actual work in my community to make people's lives a bit less miserable,

WOW, and you took time out of all you do to regale me with vague bullshit that doesn't actually say anything? I am humbled.

while the politicians YOU voted for literally bulldoze their belongings.

LITERALLY? You mean they're actually OPERATING the bulldozers?

I don't doubt that there's a valid criticism buried somewhere in all this rhetorical silly putty, but you what you really care about isn't the metaphorical literal bull dozer. You're mad because you think I was wrong last year.

I hope you've noticed that I refuse to even mount any argument as to why Trump is a worst president than Biden. I don't even have to think about that. You're pushing a losing argument, it just arrives dead, and if you could manage to convince me, it would change nothing. And you won't.

What's sad about this is that there's a probably a winning argument that you could be making. And you won't.

The 99.9% number is my own estimation, but I'd be happy to hear how you think Biden is different from Trump; you might even change my mind. I don't mean empty promises or a lack of mean tweets or whatever, I mean actual policies, like how they both embrace title 42 to deport hundreds of thousands of immigrants.

OK fine, they didn't LITERALLY operate the controls, that's what the help is for, like any true capitalist-imperialist party member they don't do any actual work themselves. But they did literally visit the camps minutes before the bulldozers arrived and told the occupants they had to leave the city or be arrested, and the bulldozers destroyed the houseless folk's belongings on their orders, but OK SURE it's so much better than the politicians themselves didn't push the button.

idgaf if you were wrong or not last year. I'm mad that people who were supposedly pro-justice and marched with me in the streets against police violence now think everything is fine because a slightly more polite fascist is in the white house.

Why would I mount an argument saying Trump is worse than Biden? I see them as differently awful. Both are absolute trash proto-fascists in my view.

This is a big thing that Dems just don't understand: they think that those of us on the left should like their proto-fascist because he's more polite. I don't give a fuck about how polite a politician is, I care about what they DO, and in terms of the material conditions of those around me, Trump and Biden are near identical. The houseless are getting their stuff trashed, brutalized by police, and kicked out of town. Immigrants are being heartlessly held in concentration camps, beaten, and deported. Poor folks abroad are being bombed. It doesn't matter which half of the capitalist-imperialist party is in power, the rest of us just get fucked.

What a fucking farce.

>>>The 99.9% number is my own estimation, but I'd be happy to hear how you think Biden is different from Trump; you might even change my mind.

OKAY, heres my problem. Do I counter your fake 99.9 per cent fake with some equally meaningless number that I pull out of my own ass, or do I actually do the work of creating a welt thought argument in response to your weak ass 99.9 per cent? There's only one way to win this game, and thats not to play.

The Steven Crowder "change my mind" game is a trolling classic. Evil Homer used to wind me up with this one all the time. I'm supposed to write out elaborate justifications for something I regard as obvious and intuitive. Not changing your mind requires literally no effort. Thoughtful rebuttals are not required. I'm not saying that Glasseye lacks Intellectual integrity, but if he did, that would be an advantage in the Steven Crowder "change my mind" game.

I'm not really saying that glasseye is deliberately playing Evil Homer's trolling game. I'm not convinced of that.. I'm just saying that this looks like a situation that I don't walk into anymore.

>>>This is a big thing that Dems just don't understand: they think that those of us on the left should like their proto-fascist because he's more polite.

STRAWMAN DETECTED. And it's practically a word for word quote of the magagas much-loved talking point of reframing every problem with Trump as a matter of "style".

147.45 percent.

>>>Both are absolute trash proto-fascists in my view.

Well, its about time! We've all been patiently waiting, wondering when will you finally stop beating around the bush and tell us what your view is!

>>>This is a big thing that Dems just don't understand: they think that those of us on the left should like their proto-fascist because he's more polite. I don't give a fuck about how polite a politician is.

Neither do I, but I wish that YOU'D be a little less of a dick.

As a builder of strawmen, you are nothing if not prolific. This may be the most MAGA thing you've ever posted, the idea that people only dislike Trump because he has bad manners. Trump, a 75 year old, mocked Greta Thunberg, a 16 year old, because she was afraid for her future. That is not a lack of politeness, you block of wood with a broadband. That's cruelty, like I'm not sure I've ever seen before.

I don't hate Trump. In a Boris Karloff-Frankenstein's Monster way, I feel sorry for the guy, but Don the worst person ever. Did you know Hitler loved dogs?

Is Biden a worse person than Trump? No, and neither were presidents Washington through Obama. Nor were the Tudors, or the Plantagenets, or Stonewall Jackson, or John Wilkes Booth, or Bill Cosby.

lol ghost stars for JHM

I won't speak for anyone else; this isn't about feelings of superiority or intellect, it's about simply seeing the material conditions of those around you, and giving a damn.

You will never improve conditions in America by letting republicans win through apathy, misguided ideals, or blind outrage.

You pick the least worst option and then fight for ranked choice.

Literally nothing will change even if managed to split the vote enough to get a Green Party candidate past that magical 5% share. Dems won’t care and the fascist republicans will just not allow you to vote eventually.

Idealism had no place in this. Idealism is for college campuses.

The "least worst option" is farther to the right every year. In the last three presidential races you folks have knowingly voted for candidates that are to the right of Reagan. This is not pragmatic. This is not harm reduction. This is you working to enact austerity and brutally cruel, far rightwing carceral policy.

I'm with SolRo. You pick the least shitty option, and you do it like a grown up. If you are voting for longshots because you think they're perfect, you're ignoring the reality of their odds of defeating the celebrity white nationalist. You can't save the dumbasses from themselves. They'll die of a transmissible disease on purpose because they don't like who sells the vaccine. There's also a swath of wealthy Americans and their wannabes who only vote with tax percentages in mind. The rich and the racists are the same team, then there's everyone else. Remember, the rich world travelers are the ones that spread the virus the worst and confused the heartland about its validity.

>>>>The "least worst option" is farther to the right every year.

I'm starting to suspect that Crackersmack has a secret agenda to murder me. If he could get me to facepalm myself to death, it would be the perfect crime.

I know that sounds conspiratorial, but it can't possibly be that he sincerely doesn't understand the basic sixth grade arithmetic that says that Democrats move to the right when the left doesn't vote for them. That's not possible. A conspiracy to kill me by facepalm is merely highly unlikely.

>>>the last three presidential races you folks have knowingly voted for candidates that are to the right of Reagan.

Not knowingly. This is the first time I've heard of it.

What else is there to compare Biden to?

Well, I did a little googling, and according to wikipedia, there have actually been a whole lot of presidents, 46 in total.

The problem here isn't that I don't respect your idealism. Go ahead and vote
for Howie Mandel if your conscious dictates it. The problem is that you're afucking asshole to everyone else in here, and all your Trump/Biden are fundamentally dishonest attempts to prove that even though your daily promise last to mock us all with a ten hour laugh track when Trump was reelected didn't quite work out, you were still right all along, at some deep metaphysical level thats independent of words, actions, and fact.

And how about Glasseye? It's not that he thinks he's superior, it's just that he cares about people, and you don't.

Clearly I did not proofread that.

To be clear. He's LITERALLY Stephen Miller.