Those who let their unneutered dogs roam the neighborhood are, of course, terrible people, and if I had my way, I would punish them all, by forcing them to live next to Crackersmack.

In a related story, black people make up 35 per cent of arrestees for violent offenses, while making up 12 per cent of the population.

Sorry, black people. It's just science.

Also, are you aware that over 90 per cent of convicted murderers belong to only one gender. For personal reasons, I'm going to refrain from naming the gender.

ashtar: total shitbag? CONFIRMED

HEY DID U GUYS KNOW HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST?? NATIONAL _SOCIALIST_ WORKERS PARTY DUMMIES!!!! ITS RIGHT THERE IN THE NAME

::ignores night of long knives and its objectives::

things devoid of context are to shallow thinkers like shiny baubles are to a crow

Wow, John. Are you comparing black people to dogs bred for dog fighting?

Here's an important difference between black people and dogs, since you seem to be confused:

Crime rates are largely a function of poverty. There's a massive black/white wealth gap in the US. Higher crime rates in black communities are thus in large part due to socioeconomic factors and wealth inequality (also differential policing and other forms of systemic racism). I can cite sources here if you want.

Economic inequality is not a reasonable explanation for the disproportional amount of violence displayed by pit bulls.

Instead, the fact that they are a cross between a dog bred to fight bulls and bears as a bloodsport with a terrier to make them better at fighting other dogs for entertainment seems to be a better explanation of their well documented propensity for violence.

Thinking that this is a reasonable analogy reveals some troubling assumptions on your part.

You're really going out of your way to not understand the point being made.

I'm guessing you've never lived in an area where people keep "yard dogs". A cruel and retarded practice that causes the vast majority of these incidents.

There's also a lot more forgiveness for when a lab bites someone vs a pit, contributing to less calls to animal control and less to add to the statistics pile.

There's also a hundred other factors you're conveniently ignoring. I'm not sure how worth it it would be for me to try explaining them to any of you, you're clearly set on demonizing people who try and have a nuanced opinion about dog bite incidents and aren't automatically swallowing your eugenics spiel.

>>>Wow, John. Are you comparing black people to dogs bred for dog fighting?

Clearly, you're the real victim here. How could anyone ever think that Ishtar doesn't argue in good faith?

There is a good explanation for why black populations have higher crime rates that does not rely on inherent group psychological features.

Unless pitbull owners are massively and disproportionally mistreating their dogs, there is no such explanation for documented pitbull aggressiveness.

Human race and dog breeds are not similar categories. Humans and dogs, in general, have a lot of differences. This shouldn't need to be said.

Drawing this comparison without recognizing these obvious disanalogies is at best irresponsible, at worst outright racist.

I'm not sure what pointing out that men are more violent than women is supposed to do. Are you arguing for government sissification camps? I'm... intrigued. Tell me more.

The People's Republic of China was founded by Republicans

THE MORE YOU KNOW

Actually yes the kind of people who suck as owners (yard/guard dog people) tend to choose the breeds most suited for biting. How is that not an obvious correlation for y'all?

Ash come on man, you must know on some level that it's silly to continue pretending what jhm said held any implications about black people. The analogy was clearly about the creation of statistics and what factors make them less reliable than they should be. Hence the black people/crime talking points that can only exist in a context-free vacuum where critical thinking is illegal.

I have some interesting facts for you about the origins and effects of gun control legislation.

wish there was an edit button. Saying my friends sister in law would make much more sense, sorry, it's early.

That sucks. Can't really speak on how the dog was raised or conditioned. "Friendly enough" can be hiding a lot of subsurface issues. Dogs are still dogs most of the time. It's a shame that breeds exist that are inherently cruel or unfair for the dogs who have no control over their existence. See; Frenchies, a breed that can't give natural birth and will likely die if pregnant outside of human care.

The real assholes? People who bred certain potential traits into a species over and over. The real assholes are _always_ people. It's too bad we will never know why the dog in your story 'freaked out' to begin with. I guarantee it wasn't on a whim - something happened to set it off. I'd be very curious to know if it was raised (a) as a puppy from the owner and (b) was a 'yard dog' or 'outside only dog' (ie constantly being aggressive to people walking past the property, and incentivised to do so). Not impossible for it to happen without those two factors, but far less likely.

Had a conversation recently with an odious person who said his dogs "were not family" and "were there to perform a job, which is to maim and kill anyone on the property who was not familiar". That kind of mentality is what drives a lot of these incidents.

I'm not making any assumptions about your friend, though. That's why I'm asking questions and not presuming to know.

nah you can have a golden retriever or a lab be a neglected yard dog and it's still much less likely to attack somebody than a pit because, like you said, this aggressiveness has been bred into them

The dog in question was raised from a puppy, and it wasn't left outside all day long. I wasn't there when it happened but it seems to be agreed that the girl was playing with the dog, and she moved a certain way that I guess he didn't like and he went bonkers without any warning.

It is worth mentioning that I've known people with pitbulls that were way less good with taking care of them properly, and there were never any instances of them doing something like this. It did solidify negative feelings I already had about the breed.

My favorite of the other pitbull owners I know was this little hipster nerd, and his girlfriend at the time, who was very sweet, but had some kind of disability with her legs, not exactly sure what it was. They had this massive pitbull that DID NOT and WOULD NOT listen to anybody ever, and you would have this tiny little girl with crippled legs getting dragged around by this dog, and I always thought for sure something really bad was going to happen but it never did.

Okay, here's a poll, in two parts.

1. Who knows someone who was seriously injured by a pit bull?

2.Who knew a woman who was murdered by her boyfriend?

In this case, "to know" means you have met the person.

Now, I'm not trying to make any specific claim here. Anecdotal evidence is flawed, and this evidence has built-in extra flaws. People are still meeting Scrimmjob's wife's sister-in law's babysitter (just breaking your balls a little Scrimmster!), but no one has met my dear friend Michelle for a long time.

She was a bartender at a restaurant where my brother and I worked. She had long red hair, and she looked like a playboy playmate, except that she had buck teeth, and she smiled all the time. So she was looked gorgeous AND goofy, the whole She was an open mind and a free spirit. She was the kind of girl you might try to fuck, because even if you struck out, she would be super chill about it. I might have tried, but my brother kind of had dibs.

A few years later, a guy she was living with beat her until her eyeball ruptured, broke a plate, and used the plate to cut her throat. He got 70 years, and I approve. He could have gotten life, but life is too short. I think they should have given him 200 years, just to make a point.

So that's one woman I knew who was murdered by her boyfriend. I'm not even going to mention the other one. She was kind of a bitch.

ERRATA: *So she was looked gorgeous AND goofy, the whole package

ERRATA ERRATA: So she looked gorgeous AND goofy, the whole package.

THE JHM TALK ABOUT A WOMAN WITHOUT BEING CREEPY CHALLENGE

Anecdotal evidence is indeed flawed.

The wikipedia article on pitbulls summarizes the debate and links to a number of good studies. There are several that show that pitbulls are one of the most bitey breeds and that they account for more bites than their proportion in the population. There is also a single literature review from the AVMA that says, more or less, "well there's a lot of factors other than breed."

I'm not going to go further than the sources cited in the wikipedia article because I am lazy. There's enough there to support the fact that they're among the most dangerous breeds.

I don't have any attachment to banning breeds. But pitbulls were bred intentionally for hundreds of years to be dogfighting dogs. They bite a lot of people and other dogs. They produce more severe injuries than most other dogs. If you own a pitbull, you own an attack dog. If it's just your big goofy untrained buddy, you're being very irresponsible.

>>>THE JHM TALK ABOUT A WOMAN WITHOUT BEING CREEPY CHALLENGE

See, when I famously said that "CREEPY IS AN AESTHETIC VALUE, what I meant was that no one who tells me I'm creepy has ever been able to tell me what I've done wrong. It's been years now, and if they could do that, they wouldn't be forced to rely on weak-ass shit like "creepy".

It's a perception. If you think I'm creepy, you're automatically right. What the fuck am I supposed to do about that?

By the way, Ishtar, that was acually genuinely funny. Points for that.

"What the fuck am I supposed to do about that?"

Have you tried posting only during post-nut clarity?

Shit take. You're on the back foot and I can see why.

German Shepards can be goddamn scary for sure. I read somewhere that chihuahuas are some of the most biting assed dogs of them all.

and, I should add, the anti-pit people are pretty funny as well
r/BanPitBulls/ is real hysterical

I think we have a new entry for the backpedaling tour de france.

Okay that's enough of that. I'm not going to give you too much shit. Backing off a bad position is honorable, and if you want to save face, I'll cooperate. Serious as a brain tumor here.

I just want to point out that I always said that the guy who protected his dog did the right thing.

My friend had two great Danes, and they were cute as hell, but they could scare the . The cuter one was the male, the bigger one. He was what they call a harllequin, based on his markings. Very early on, in Cynthia's front yard, Chaz took my forearm in his enormous jaws, squeezed, and tugged. He wanted to play, and he didn't hurt me at all. However, he did scare the holy fucking bejesus out of me. If I had reacted a little differently, it could have gone badly for one of us.

The only dog who ever hurt me was my brother's dog Peaceflower, a cute little mutt whose original owner had been an honest to god hippie chick, hence the name. Peaceflower jumped into my lap one day, and damn near ruptured one of my balls. For a small dog, she was large, if that makes sense. She took a running jump.

I haven't said anything I don't think is true.

>>>I'm not sure what pointing out that men are more violent than women is supposed to do. Are you arguing for government sissification camps? I'm... intrigued. Tell me more.

Well, let's see if I can narrow this down to one central argument.

Ishtar, you're a class A moron.






Okay, I guess that's not a good argument. Are we actually arguing about anything? More stringent licsensing requirements? Mandatory obedience training? I could get behind that, depending on the details. Or is it just "Pit Bulls suck?" It's not at all clear.

Remember when we argued about cat videos for several years?